Arnold Byun | Building Brands, Front-of-House Mastery, and Stacking Skills - Ep 157
Episode Notes
My guest today is Arnold Byun, a hospitality leader, brand builder and community connector. As the Founder of With Warm Welcome and Co-Founder of MAUM, his purpose and passion is in amplifying fellow Asian founders through experiential storytelling, event activations, and branded partnerships.
I met Arnold on one of my first visits to Atomix in New York City, check out that This Place Called video on my Youtube channel if you haven’t seen that yet - because that’s where Arnold got some stellar hospitality experience, in this episode though, we discuss:
If at any point, you'd like to pause and check out Arnold online or any of the specific, linkable things we discussed, please do check out the show notes which are available in the description of this podcast
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🔪 Total Station Domination by Repertoire: https://geni.us/CzZq
🍳 5-Day Kitchen Productivity Challenge: https://geni.us/5day-kitchen-prod
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Arnold's Sites: https://www.arnoldbyun.com
https://www.withwarmwelcome.com
https://www.maum.market
Habitue in LA (Marcus Jernmark & Robert Sandberg's LA concept): https://www.instagram.com/habituelosangeles/
Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara: https://geni.us/vGwQo
Setting the Table by Danny Meyer: https://geni.us/qtuK
Atomix in NYC: https://geni.us/ZVj1m
My Article on Pop-Ups: http://www.joinrepertoire.com/blog/pop-up-expectations-vs-reality
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If you come across something you ended up having to search for, send me a message to help make these Show Notes better!
Justin's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@justinkhanna
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Thanks to JB Prince for supporting The Repertoire Podcast: https://geni.us/jbprince
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This episode’s transcript is auto-generated using software. Typos, misspellings, and errors might appear. If you have questions or fixes you’d like applied to this transcript, please reach out to hello@joinrepertoire.com.
[00:00:00]
What is up folks? My guest today is Arnold B, a hospitality leader, brand builder and community connector. He is the founder of with Warm Welcome and the co-founder of Maum His purpose and passion is in Amp flying fellow Asian founders. Through experiential storytelling, event activations and branded partnerships, I had the pleasure of meeting Arnold and one of my first visits to Atomics in New York City. Check that out on the, this place called video that got posted on my channel, the Justin.
On a YouTube channel, if you haven't seen that yet. It's a full recap on that entire meal because that's where Arnold got some stellar hospitality experience. In addition to working at restaurants like Bule 11, Madison Park and more, and in this episode we discuss leadership in hospitality, why branding is so important.
Funny restaurant stories that he has through working with professionals like Will Gadara. Just so many more dot points. I I really, really respect Arnold as just an entrepreneur and taking his hospitality experience and continuing to build with it. If at any point you wanna pause, you wanna check out Arnold online mom with Warm welcome, his podcast, or any of the specific linkable things that we discussed.
Please do check those out in the show notes, which are always available in the description of this podcast. But before we get into it, this episode is sponsored by a flagship course from my company Repertoire. It's all about performance in professional kitchens, and it's called Total Station Domination.
That is the phrase that a lot of you folks DM me about. You, you, you'll. Tag me in a photo on Instagram when your station's all perfectly set up and you say, hashtag tsd. I made a whole course about it and I couldn't be more stoked about how this really takes you through the skills to be a high performer, that it took me years to learn.
It's not to say that it won't take you Le years to [00:02:00] develop these, but I just wanna give 'em to you straight from the jump. And basically the way that it's structured is video lessons complete with a workbook full of worksheets. Case studies that I discuss from real restaurant situations. And then I also have options now to upgrade your experience with live exercises as well as group coaching with me.
Plus every student, regardless of if you upgrade or not, gets access to a private online student community so that you don't have to go it alone. I know for me, there were times when I felt incredibly lonely in professional kitchens, and that doesn't happen with total station nomination. You're always supported every step of the.
You can check out the link in the description or check out join repertoire.com/t S D. You'll be all the more ready to finally achieve total station domination. Thanks so much for being with me. Here we go with Arnold.
Justin Khanna: Arnold, thank you for coming on the show. It's really a joy to see you obviously not in person, but after it, it's probably been like a year and a half at least since we've seen each other.
Arnold Byun: Yes. It's been a year and a half and what a year and a half it's been for everybody.
Justin Khanna: with the date. I'm gonna put a time stamp on it. It's October 3rd, 2022 as a snapshot for folks. You think a ton about brand building, which is to, in my mind, inherently future thinking. I'm really curious to hear what your kind of state of the union is for hospitality right now. If you had to just kind of give a, an overview of where, what, what you're thinking about.
Arnold Byun: Yeah, I mean obviously I'm in a much different place sooner. A year and a half ago I was working on a restaurant called Atomix in New York City. We were , everything was working out for us. We had amazing collaborations lined up. But obviously we had to reschedule a lot of those. They're finally doing it now, you know, a year and a half later, which is amazing to see from afar.
But I think hospitality at the, the way it is, we all thought like it was gonna change. But to be completely honest with you, I don't think much has changed. In fact, people have really doubled down on operate opening up new locations. I think those that survive the pandemic, I mean, I know we're kind of in still.
When the, those that really survived the, the heart of [00:04:00] it, they've actually expanded. They've opened up a new location, They're growing and it's, it's cool and amazing to see. Unfortunately, on the other side of that, we saw a lot of restaurants that you could say maybe didn't, didn't deserve to make it through for x, y, Z reasons, but I think it kind of sorted out the industry quite a bit and those that are still here are here for good reason.
And I could say that about my former team too. They're opening up a new restaurant, Rockefeller Crazy development by the way, happening at Rockefeller. Everyone should definitely keep tabs on that, but I think you should be faithful. I think people should be excited. I know for a fact that it's really hard to get a reservation in New York right now.
Everyone is dining out. 5:00 PM slots are popular. Early dinners have become popular, so people's habits have changed with the pandemic. Early dinners are like the hottest thing. So dining out. I think will always be something that's in demand. Obviously it's pent up demand because we couldn't we also see like big box restaurants opening up too, just insane.
So it's a really interesting time actually to be in the hospitality industry. And for me, since I'm not in a restaurant anymore, I'm, I'm kind of just admiring it from afar, but kudos to everyone that's made it out. I, I, I think it's gonna get better and better. Hotel prices. More or less come back pre covid prices, if not higher.
So I would say the industry is in a pretty good place right now. Interestingly enough,
Justin Khanna: When you think about the differences in hospitality, dining out culture, chef communities between New York and la, it seems like you're new to la. What, what have you noticed?
Arnold Byun: relatively new. I've been here for two years now actually. So, but obviously that two years it's, it's, it's been with Covid. The differences Is that is, was that your kind of
Justin Khanna: Yeah, just if, if there are differences, similarities. I think that a lot of folks there's a, there's a project that's happening right now in LA and it's kind of being built and they're sharing how it's being built. It's called Habit You, it's Marcus j Mark, and Robert Sandberg. And I would've thought them coming off of a project like.
[00:06:00] Working at Franson and being there when it went from two stars to three stars, I would've probably called New York as the place where they were gonna go because Marcus had experience in New York, but they chose la. You have people like Dave Barron saying, I'm gonna move to LA and so I guess,
what are you noticing in LA that might be different from New York?
Maybe there's similarities and you know, it's actually a viable city to go to in a way that it wasn't, I would say in like 2012 ish era.
Arnold Byun: No. I love that you brought this up. Obviously the New York versus LA will always be the hottest topic and now versus Shake Shack and this, and. And I think you just have rabid fans on both sides and it's always gonna be a fun topic to talk about. So my take on it, you know, being here for two years is is just a completely different beast entirely.
It's hard to compare the two. And in fact, if you try to compare the two, you won't make it out here. And if you try to bring a lot of that New York swagger in the way it was, you're not gonna make it. You just look at Nomad as an example. They put a lot of money in that project. Gone. You know, there's a new one that just opened up called Perla.
They're the ones that took over the Nomad Hotel. But I think you just have to be very cautious and sensitive to the LA dining scene cuz it's just different, man. It's not, people are not going out dressing up or like a 14 seat counter, like Atomix, you know? I actually think Atomix might not do very well here in comparison to New York, just cuz price point.
You have to, you have to be sensitive about that. So for me, I love being in LA because to your point, I do see a lot of transplants. I like myself that move back either home or they just decamped here in la. So you have a lot of fresh, new talent in LA and the dining seat is, is incredibly interesting.
And I think just given the population that's here, a lot of Koreans, a lot of Latinos, a lot of like minority groups that have. You know, immigrated here to begin with. Like, we have the biggest Thai town, for example. Thai food is amazing in la It's a really fascinating dining city. But again, I, I just think that you have to take into consideration that la people are not New York people.
You know, it's different mindset, man. Like, I go [00:08:00] to, I go to bed at like 10:00 PM now. It's is ridiculous. But like, I like those early dinners. I like brunches. You know, it's just, it changes you just the, the weather and.
Justin Khanna: You to touch a bit on your restaurant experience. You strike me as someone who crushed it at the restaurants you worked at, just like organized and personable and just great team dynamics. It seems like you caught onto leadership relatively quickly, but I met you when you were experienced, right?
People say the same thing about me sometimes. It's like, Oh, well I see that you've worked in these places. They didn't see when I was really not good in the, in the kitchen as a Comey or as a early chef to partee. I,
I wanted to talk to you about your experience in Michelin Kitchen specifically, and the first question is, do you look back fondly at those kitchen or at those restaurants that you worked in?
Some people don't have the best relationships with those memories. Do, do you look back fondly at those times?
Arnold Byun: I love your questions. I think restaurant experience will always forever be ingrained in your dna, especially if you work in the fine dining level. There's certain things that you learn. I can't speak too much on the kitchen cuz obviously I kind of came up through the front of house and also the closest I got was expediting at 11 Madison, which was an amazing experience.
Honestly. I think it just changes you fundamentally as a person in terms of like how you live your life, your outlook on life. Organized, you have to be like, I'm sitting in my store that I just opened and everything just has to be like linear and lined up and organized. So I do look fondly on those things in terms of just that mentality that I think you build over time.
It's like going to a camp or graduate school. You know, I always told myself that Lev Madison Park was my graduate program. I did a host program at nyu. As soon as I graduated, that's, that's where I went next. But so I do look fondly on it. Obviously there are things that I don't miss, which are obviously just the hours being on your feet for so long.
But I think that when I was in it, I enjoyed it. Looking back, I have no regrets. I think it made me the person that I am to your point, always been interested in [00:10:00] leadership, but
expediting at Eleven Madison Park made me who I am today. You know? When you're expediting at any kitchen, but specifically emp, like you really have to hold your ground.
And even if you don't know what you're doing, you just have to be extra confident because if you look a little confused, it's just a shit, you know, every, everyone is gonna be on panic mode, so you have to be cool, calm, collected, it's all okay. Things are gonna work out. And I think that kind of, you know, aura that.
Air, I think has, has really helped a lot for me kind of post restaurant industry. You know, I, I work with a lot of personalities right now and different people, but incredible experience and it's, it's translated very well for me. Yeah. Post restaurant world.
Justin Khanna: It was gonna be kind of my follow up question, but you touched on a couple of those points. I'd be curious if more come to mind cuz I was gonna ask, what are the qualities that exemplify or you look for in a high performer? In one of those environments. You talked about levelheadedness, you talked about just calm under pressure.
There's an organization element to it. People are looking to you to kind of set the energy, especially on an expediting station. Anything else that you look for and, you know, you can speak to that person who potentially got their first expediting role, what you would advise them to keep in mind in a position like that?
Arnold Byun: Yeah, I mean it's,
it's one of those fundamental leadership qualities I, I learned early on, which is, especially if you're in a state of like mentoring somebody or you're on the receiving end of it if you're in the receiving end of it being as open minded as possible just receiving all the information from all the different people and perspectives that's around you, number.
One Don't talk back, just say yes. Oui just listen initially. There's no need to like prove yourself. There's no need to tell someone that they're wrong. There's really no need for that when you're really getting your feet wet. Just gotta absorb it like a sponge. And then from a mentoring side, when you're trying to grow somebody, obviously you don't wanna criticize them in public should be done in [00:12:00] private.
It's amazing how simple it may seem when you hear these things, but when you. have Pressurized situations, it just kind of goes out the window. So I think that this is very important. It's just, to your point, again, just that triple C right? Cool, calm, collected. It's gonna get you far. And you know, I hate the saying fake it till you make it, but it's kind of true.
It's, it's all about being confident. So either way, I think at the end of the day, that's, that's what matters the most. And you know, if there's something that you believe in as a. person You know, you have, be honest, be good. That's, that's really it, man. I think it's important to really hold onto those simple morals and values.
Justin Khanna: Well, that becomes the test, right? It's like, Oh, well I can keep it cool, calm and collected when we have 25 covers on a Tuesday night. It's like, cool, dude. But like, that's not the point. You know? Like it's when you have 95 people coming in and it's like the allergies are crazy, or there's a
Arnold Byun: Oh, I know.
Justin Khanna: on table, whatever.
Like that's when you need to show it, you know?
Arnold Byun: Well there, there's times when there's like, when you do the 25 covers and they actually be, it ends up being like your hardest night, cuz every table has some sort of allergy or version. So, you know, you never know. You always gotta be ready.
Justin Khanna: Everyone knows the, You touched on this too, the, the front of house, back of house dynamic. You even made it a point to kind of like say, I've spent time in front of house. I'm not a, a kitchen person, which super appreciated. It's not a, it's not a call out, it's just there is this dynamic that, that there are different roles, there's different responsibilities, there are different positions.
And you've led front of house teams before you've worked with kitchens that put out incredible food. I know that you've talked previously about the importance of letting your staff taste the food that's coming off of the menu, just because that doesn't always happen. But you can either speak to the front of house professional, you can talk to the chef.
How do you make that relationship more mutually beneficial between front of house, back house?
Arnold Byun: Yeah. No, I appreciate you doing your research and homework. I think it's just this never ending conversation as well, like the New York versus LA conversation. I honestly thought that EMP would, [00:14:00] I'm not saying they're, they're not as good as it used to be, but I thought that relationship was what made that restaurant so successful between Will and Chef Daniel because they're the best at, at what they do, you know, arguably, arguably.
And so when they split up, it was like the biggest split I've ever, I've really felt it personally cuz they're the ones that show me that it works, that symbiotic relationship. But I think after. Did not work out, pan out the way it, it should have, in my opinion. I look at Atomix, husband and wife, and now I'm looking and thinking, you know what?
Some of these successful restaurants have that husband and wife duo typically don't wanna generalize or stereotype, but that's the case, right? Like the, the husband or the, the male is usually in the kitchen. Female is doing administrative work, relationship building. And the reason why that works, in my opinion, is because they both stand in their own.
And I think for any successful partnership, whether in the restaurant industry or just business in general, is identifying your strengths and weaknesses and then agreeing like, Hey, this is your territory. This is your domain. You do that and this is what I'm gonna do. And this is, and we're not gonna argue about this.
We're gonna empower each other cuz I trust you, you trust me. You know? So that has worked.
Justin Khanna: Will you, will we see someone else like will come to the for I, I'm shocked that after Will's success, and it's not to say that there aren't other talented front of house folks in the industry, but man, to see someone genuinely build a celebrity status on being a front of house person. There are a few other examples that I can point to in the industry that made an impact like he has and he has his wealth conference now and he has a book coming out. I, I would, I, I'd cheer it on, man. Like I wanna see more of those front of house, quote unquote celebrities, like we have celebrity chefs, front of house, celebrities, whatever the name will, will be coined. That one that does so many things, right? It gives the chef someone to latch [00:16:00] onto because otherwise, for whatever reason, that responsibility can sometimes fall on the chef.
Two, it helps the rest of that front of house team rally behind whoever. Industry leader is that thought leader is I want to go work for will, you know, versus, Oh, well I work front of house at insert restaurant. That happens to be nice. Number three, I don't know if you agree with this, but there's a, there's a common stereotype that the thing that takes a restaurant from two stars to three stars is the service.
So like, we should be prioritizing the heck out of high quality service dynamics. So I don't know where,
where does your head go there? Thinking about like the celebrity Front-of-House person.
Arnold Byun: I think it's a dying breed. I think they're extinct. I think they're very undervalued. And the reason why I kind of open up the interview saying that I'm a front of house guy is because, you know, a lot of people when they assume that I work in restaurants, like, Oh, you were a chef. No. So many different things and roles that go into a restaurant, but I think even now you look at Top Chef, right?
And Iron Chef came back. It's just further incentivizing chefs to have this big ego. And I think ego is always the problem. Like everyone wants, everyone has a big ego. So it's, it's, it's, that's not the heart of the issue. It's really sad to see because back in the day in New York, Yeah, you're right actually the front of the house.
Was more valuable than the chef. Like all the chefs wanted to go work for Sirio Maccioni you know, And like there were these figures and celebrities will latch onto them, right? Your your old MDs like maître d like, they were the man. But nowadays it's kind of like a, you know, I, I, that was my label too. And unfortunately it's kind of lost its luster.
People think of it as like a lead host, which is so different from, from what it, the role entails. But it's, it's tough to say. I think that just the generation That we live in now, we do highly value chefs as we should cuz they're skilled. But to your point, I think what really gets a restaurant over that hump and you see a lot of two Michelin star restaurants stay in that two is they just don't have the extraordinary service.
Cuz [00:18:00] for me, and this is kind of a controversial statement, I believe that if you train yourself, you can be a good cook over. time Okay. I'm not saying that if you, you could train yourself to be a good cook. However, being a front house person, you can train yourself. But there's something like inherently that you have, it's like sixth sense almost, where you know what someone needs in advance ahead of time and, and that becomes like the wow factor.
That's what's gonna get your restaurant over that hum. But, Again, Then it just goes back to like, I'm better than you. You don't, You need me, I don't need you. This and that. So it's, it's, yeah, never.
Justin Khanna: I If someone feels like they have that, that, that, you know, it, it, it's in them. That, that there's, there's that bone there. How, are there practices that you've seen that help cultivate that or grow that or improve that?
And I'm talking about the hospitality skill that you have that sixth sense and you can feel that you have it, or you've seen examples in your career of being able to display it.
Can you improve that?
Arnold Byun: I think you can improve it cuz with all things. With practice, you could, you could definitely get better. I think it's also up to the restaurant culture. To your point, having a thought leader, like an individual that represents that excellence in the restaurant, I think is incredibly important. Because when I look to Will, you know, I used to, So when Will comes in, he usually comes with when they were still together, Him and Chef they always sit at a corner table together.
It's just the two of them and they come in like once a quarter just to quality control qc, make sure everything is You know, up to their standard. I was always put on that team, you know, to, to service that table. And I remember it was like my second or third month in and will kind of motions over to me. Hey, you know, is everything alright?
Do you need anything? And he's like, Hey, that table needs to be straighter. And This dude is like halfway into his meal. What it seems like he's just like really into this conversation and having a great time. But actually he was [00:20:00] also observing the entire dining room down to the point that I had not strained this table.
And I think having that presence alone makes you wanna get better, do better. So I think it's possible, but you need that mentor. You need that individual that, that exem that exemplifies it on the daily. Very important.
Justin Khanna: You told the story once that I, that I was listening to and, and I have a follow up question, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna set the stage for the, for the listener here. So you, you, you were working at b and you can correct me if I'm wrong on any of these details from the story, but
Arnold Byun: Yeah, yeah, of
Justin Khanna: of get thrust into your first management position after your manager left and goes to school.
And the, the listener who's worked in the industry for a while knows that this is sometimes how it happens. It's not this long trajectory towards getting a management position. It's sometimes like, So and so didn't show up today, or, Hey, so and so is leaving like tomorrow. You need to jump into the, the position.
But you talk about getting that position paved the way for you to get positions at much higher caliber places down the line. And it's not to say that belay is a bad place, but like you had a leadership position at a Michelin kitchen on your resume and that kind of allowed for other things to happen in the future for yourself.
So my. in regards to this kind of inquiry that I get sometimes, which is, you know, Justin, working for free is never worth it. It, regardless of the name of the place, it, it, it's, it's not worth it for me to like go there and, and, and whatever, whatever. And then I have people who say on the other side of it, they're like, Justin, I heard somebody talk about this working for free thing.
So I, I just wanted to reach out and say, I'm so excited. I just got my year long stage. And No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that either. You know, so, so, so , it's like, I want to talk, I want, I wanna hear you talk about the non monetary value of experience and how people should prioritize that in their career.
Cuz it's not always about how much money you're making.
Arnold Byun: Yeah. And I think
you just have to have an angle, right? Like what is it that you want? And like how can you, how can you get there? Like have some sort of pinpoint, It doesn't have [00:22:00] to be like, I wanna open my restaurant. For example, I wanna be a restaurant manager. I want to be a sous chef. Okay. So like, what are the steps that you can take to get there?
So I think always having some sort of like checkpoint in your career will help you assess that. Cause when you don't have a guiding North star, you're always gonna just work for free here. Work for free there. Like, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just I've seen this happened way too many times.
You need to know, like give yourself, okay, I wanna be a sous chef in five years. Okay, So how are you, how are you gonna get there? Next question is just feasibility. Obviously, you can't be homeless and work in a restaurant, like you wanna make sure you're, you're able to pay for a roof over your head. So if you can decide what is the, the amount every month, every week that I need to get paid to, like, get by, then that's okay.
Like, for example, you know, this specific role that I had at Bouley I was still in college at the time, I was 20 years. My peers thought I was doing really well. Like I was getting paid six figures to manage the submission star restaurant. No dude, like I was not doing well. I was, I was eating dollar sliced pizzas for lunch every day.
I had McDonald's after work every night. Like it's all just a show. Right? And to that end, it's not about the glitz and glamor. I always say this, whenever I talk to new people coming to the restaurant industry, like, please don't get into it for that to be famous. Or to, you know, to show off that you're in the wrong industry.
This is the worst industry to be showing off because people have this, people that have been in this industry, we have this BS radar, and we, we pick it up real quick. Like, Okay, this guy is not cut out for this job or for this industry. So, you know, to your point, I think it's, you gotta, you gotta make sure you cover those bases.
Well, how much do I need to get? And if you don't get paid at your stage, is there another work around that, Right. Where you can work somewhere else for a little bit. But experience is number one. I will say that experience and where you [00:24:00] work, that's gonna get you far to wherever you need to go. But again, like have a position in mind and if you have a restaurant in mind that you wanna work on even better, like that's, that's, that's amazing.
So those things I think are.
key
I want all of you folks to crush it at work, but if you're in an environment where you feel like growth is hard to come by, it can be frustrating, especially considering that you're probably sacrificing a lot to be in your current position. Just hoping that someone will teach you the skills required to improve, can feel like crossing your fingers and holding your breath, and you waste months or even years with that strategy To solve this problem, I just relaunched my completely free five day kitchen productivity challenge, taking content from my full course total station nomination and structuring it in a way that gets sent straight to your inbox.
Again, absolutely free. If you want skills that I've used in high caliber kitchens to push myself beyond where I thought my limits are, there's a link in the description of this podcast where you can sign up. I hope you're enjoying this episode so far. Let's dive back.
Justin Khanna: I want to kind of make a bit of a transition into what you're working on now and, and the, the point that's gonna help us bridge that is talking about popups because the, another subsection of the listeners of this show, Get excited about popups, whether it's attending them to get inspiration, whether it's, you know, helping a chef friend of theirs who's hosting one of theirs, or it's hosting one of them their their own, when they're wanting to do it on a day offer in anticipation of launching their own concept and,
.I'm less interested in having you explain what a popup is or convincing someone to do one. But let's say I'm someone who's got three popups under my belt. I've done a few already. I understand what's required. What are some optimizations that you and your team do when you're thinking about a popup that might give the listener a bit of a leg up or that you've really incorporated into your process now where you're like, Every time we do a popup, we have to do this cause it's so valuable.
Arnold Byun: I think you actually wrote an article on popups that was really excellent about how it's not just like it just happens in a day. There's actually a lot of time before and after the popup and I, I remember reading that article and. thinking That's right. Like people assume that it just happens [00:26:00] overnight and it's, it's easy to, Right.
But to optimize a popup, which is usually anywhere from like one day to a month to three months, to even up to a year I think the biggest thing that we do and we do a monthly popup every month. Like we had this flea market that we produce in Los Angeles where we gather Asian artisans, so they make jewelry, ceramics, flowers, art, you name it, we have.
it And they show up to our popups every month. The way to optimize and, and this is how I think about it, is usually for me, the concept or space comes first. And Danny Meyer had a really great quote on this, and I think I read it in his book, way back when, about how he came up with concepts for his restaurants.
And I think it was along the lines of like, he created around either the location, the chef or the concept. I think those were the three categories he thinks about when he, you know, creates a new restaurant concept. And I kind of think about that too in the problems that I do is like, what is the central theme?
I have kind of a marketing mind. So I also think from a food media perspective, like if I wrote for Eater, why would I wanna write about this? Why would I want to cover this? Why would I wanna put this in my AM intel? So I think thinking about even like all of that will help you optimize the popup. I think you need to really remove yourself actually from that position and think about the customer.
Think about, again, food media, because you're not gonna have a successful popup. You don't have people coming up. There's no point. It's gonna be worthless. So you have to think about that and kind of create the popup around that, not popup. And then, how do I get people? It's like, what do the people want?
You know, what? What is it that they want? What is it that they need? What's the problem and how can I solve it? And popups are those platforms for you to test out those solutions. And if it works out, amazing. You know, you go out and find a brick and mortar or whatever you need to do, but I think people are just thinking, thinking of it entirely wrong and approaching it wrong.
Where did they just literally think about the [00:28:00] popup? It's like everything around that is so important. you know, like the popup itself is like the least important. It's, it's always been to come down to the community and the demand. So,
Justin Khanna: Well, people might think about it from the sense of like, Oh, well I'm gonna be there. Or it's like, it's all about me. And, and, and it's
Arnold Byun: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Justin Khanna: Like that's already baked in. Like that's assumed, That's assumed that you're gonna be there. So it's like, what, what, what else is they're gonna be?
That's so
Arnold Byun: I, I agree with you, man. It's not, it's not about the individual like, like you said. And I mean, if people are thinking that way, they got checked themselves. They got checked that you got the door. Cause it's, they're gonna have a pretty failure
Justin Khanna: You brought this up a huge aspect of your work is amplifying Asian entrepreneurship, which I think is incredible. I'd love for you to talk about. It. Was there a moment when you decided that that was going to be something that you decided to prioritize? Maybe talk about why it's important to you, and then I'd also love for you to talk about what folks get wrong about empowering founders and makers.
Because every tech product, everything in the Creator economy, Shopify thing is like, Well, we're empowering people, and it's like, what does that mean to you?
Arnold Byun: Yeah. The reason why I kind of started to lean more onto Asian community is because, you know, coming up through the ranks and, and the restaurant industry in New York, I noticed a very peculiar common thread, which. There's so many Asians at like the mid-management level. A lot of dos were Asians that I've had, and not until recently.
A lot of like the actual owners, chef owners or you know, restaurant owners were predominantly white. I could say the same for like a kitchen structure. Always like the head chef would be white sous chef There's totally so many Asian sous chefs. It's kind of crazy, but like that kind of dynamic always.
Made me wonder like, what, what's going on? You know, you, you start to like, look around, you're like, Hey, the guys that look like me are always like doing the same thing. And why have we not broken that barrier? We should be already on top right now. And I noticed that a few are popping up at the time, like this is three, four years ago.[00:30:00]
And I noticed that they were not getting the media coverage. I couldn't, I couldn't find anything on them. No one was covering their stories. And so that kind of, yeah, that kind of, I'm gonna say empowered here, but like empowered me to, to start with warm welcome which helps tell those stories of Asian restaurant owners, Asian chefs, because I think sometimes it takes somebody to have walked that path or understand the challenges and tribulations of being an Asian immigrant to help tell that.
So I felt like I could be the person to do that given obviously I'm Asian, but I have the restaurant industry experience. I think there's a lot of personalities, and this is, and this is why you're so good at this, there's so many media personalities that don't have the hands on experience and it's easily visible when they talk about these things.
So that's why I started it. And in terms of empowering yeah, it's a. Sticky word. I, I feel like it's gotten overused quite a bit. I think that's why I've kind of leaned on to amplify to
Justin Khanna: like, cut through the noise, man. Like that. That's a, that's a better, that's a better, If it's a better word, totally use it. But I, I, I don't know, man. I, I, I roll. You're right. People roll their eyes when they hear it now because it's like, Yeah, what does that mean? Or you're saying it because you want to be perceived as being helpful, but like, what are you actually doing?
And that's what stands out to so much about your, your stuff. Is that it? You are actually like, Anyways, keep going. Keep going.
Arnold Byun: No, no, no. I appreciate you like, making that, that distinction because I think in business as well a lot of the, the big companies like to latch on to certain ideas and things and borrow those words for a different reason or for maybe to have a different agenda in mind. I think the biggest thing that comes to mind, and I'm just gonna put them on blast, is I think DoorDash did a magazine recently.
I forget what it's called. It was, I just, I didn't really like it, but like, it was about Asian chefs and Asian restaurant tours, or like the first magazine I guess they're running a magazine now, but DoorDash, and actually the, one of the co-founders is Asian. But that's not the problem. The problem is how much percentages at these delivery platforms take from [00:32:00] you.
Right? And here we are, like we're empowering our operators by putting them in a magazine. So I think the context is, I. I will say that I think consumers are getting smarter and smarter and they understand and they're able to come through the noise too. Like they'll, they'll see that. And I see a lot of backlash on that magazine because of the fact that it was produced by DoorDash, which is a multi-billion dollar company for being the middleman between restaurant and consumer.
So not much to say as as, although I think. It's important that the people that do it right, like we have, we have to be the ones that are continuously holding it, holding that to our standard. I think that's something I try to, you know, think about a lot is if I'm amplifying Asians, I, and I've used that, I'm using that term, then I have to be responsible for showing a diverse set of Asian faces.
So not just Korean and Japanese, Chinese, but like Cambodian Indian Southeast Asian. Yeah, whenever you're using a word like empower or amplify, I think you should really live up to it. Not just for someone else, but for yourself. So that's just something I guess I wanted to put out on the airwaves is, if you're gonna use that word, make sure you're, you're living it to that standard.
Justin Khanna: When I see your content, your marketing materials, your projects, your branding, It's incredibly aesthetic. So this is like partially me just paying you a compliment. Like your stuff always looks so good.
Arnold Byun: Thanks, man.
Justin Khanna: Where, where does that come from? Was, was there a learning curve there? Did you just find incredibly talented artists and graphic designers to work with?
I guess like talk to the folks about why that's important. Because chefs, chefs often fall into this camp of like, Oh, I'll just put it out there. Or like, it'll almost be like tongue in cheek not looking good because it's like, Oh, well it's, it's kind of scrappy, but man, I look at your stuff and it, it's so polished and, and it just, it, it's, it's almost like a preemptive, a preempt, a preview of the experience that you're gonna get at one of your projects.
So, can you talk a little bit about why good branding is important?
Arnold Byun: Yeah, good [00:34:00] branding is really important, especially if you wanna cut through the noise and cut through the competition that's out there in the industry, there's so many options and selections that a consumer can choose from. And I think the first thing that consumers look at without even thinking about it, is the branding, how it.
looks And unfortunately that's just the society that we live in. I look at book covers these days. I, not these days. I al I always looked at book covers first because that's what appeals to me first. In terms of good design for me, I think growing up I've always had an interest in it. So I always used to read books about typography and logos and just, that was my interest growing up.
And then when I was able to apply it was I took this computer class in high school. and a lot of the projects revolved around Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop and things like that. So I picked it up. Then I actually still do most of the designs myself, like all the with warm welcome graphics, posters, all of it.
I, I produce myself, I design it and I think that's really important to know. You don't have to be good at it, but I do think. Adobe suite of programs is so important because if you wanna put your idea into reality or executed, it's nice when you yourself know how to do that rather than relying on somebody.
And that's something I think as an entrepreneur I'm trying to get better at, is you kind of have to do everything. You have to at least know how everything works for things to function. . just take a lot of responsibility in that. So I actually really highly encourage people to learn the basics of the Adobe programs or if not, get a little bit more computer literate.
You know, I've worked with a lot of chef in my lifetime and a lot of 'em just don't wanna touch technology. Like they're, they hate technology and I get it, but like, Hey man, it's, it is just, the world we live is so different now.
Justin Khanna: Yeah, you'll box yourself. It's like one of those, if where your skillset lies is in the kitchen alone, you'll, you'll spend [00:36:00] almost all the time in the kitchen. But if you can take a step back and design, design the menu for the, for the popup, like, you'll, you'll be able to do that.
And then you know that, that I have a hard time believing that won't pay off for. Later in your career. Cuz what I've told folks is like, you might not be the graphic designer in the business, but if and when you hire a graphic designer having the ability to evaluate their performance, that's the, that's the game.
Arnold Byun: That's the whole game. Really? Yeah.
Justin Khanna: are folks, this is perfectly segues. There, there are folks that have resumes that, for all intensive purposes, sound similar to yours. Front of house manager at high performing restaurant, but not all of them developed all the other skills that you have. So like, I'm curious, was there a moment where you saw someone where you're like, They started here, but then they became an entrepreneur by a stacking all these other skills on top of each other, Or was it your observation of the world just slowly changing, changing over time, and you were like, Oh, well I better kind of like just start to stack these other skills.
I'm just so curious because I'm the same
I started making a YouTube cooking show when I was executive sous at a restaurant in Europe. Like, that was fricking weird man. And so it was like, where, where, where? How did that happen?
Arnold Byun: Yeah, but in hindsight, were you glad that you did that?
Justin Khanna: Oh my God. It completely transformed not just my career, but, but my life. Like the opportunities to get to talk to people and, and help folks. I mean, like, there's a selfish element of like, you know, I'm not in, in, in a kitchen prepping 30 kilos of cod every single day like I used to. But then there's also like The dms I get, man, is just, I wouldn't trade it for the world, like the, people who get value from the stuff and step outside their comfort zone and do something that they didn't think was possible before.
Or they make the move to a city that they're really jazzed about or they just made a really cool dish that finally made the menu. They've been on the sidelines for a while. Yeah, man. Like no regrets. Zero.
Arnold Byun: Nice. So I think this is key. I think for me, if you work [00:38:00] at a high performing restaurant that has name value, that people recognize in instantly, make sure you're squeezing every ounce. Of being associated to that restaurant, like every little ounce, because you're doing yourself no favor by making that your entire life.
And in fact, that's very toxic, unhealthy, you will burn out. You will quit in like six months. You have to latch onto a restaurant and from there do yourself a favor and, and create something for yourself, like some space for yourself, whether it's a YouTube channel, whether it's a podcast. I'm the same way, man.
When I was at Atomix, that's when I started with Warm Welcome as a podcast. Are you kidding? That's how I got my foot in the door. Hey, I work at Atomix. You can talk to me. I'm a restaurant guy. We'll be friends. We'll be fine. So the, this is the key that I think a lot of people in the industry don't latch onto.
It's like you have to make that time for yourself to take advantage of the situation. I'm sorry to say, but even as an employer now, and I have employees, I want them to. Not just do the bare minimum, but it's like, I actually want them to take advantage of the fact that they're associated with my brand, because that says so much about what you've built, right?
If you're, what A Will or Daniel at emp, and you see all these amazing restaurants that are opening up and it says like, EMP alumni, NoMad alumni, like, I'd be so proud of myself for growing that family tree. So yeah, I, I just think that's something that people need to hear is you have to go the extra mile.
If you wanna sustain yourself, if you wanna make a name for yourself, like you gotta do it both simultaneously too. Like you and I have, like, you can't just, there's just, there's just no way. So yeah, I think especially in this age, it's all about like, you can't even just create an Instagram page. There you go.
You have your own brand, you know, So it's really easy, man. Just you, you gotta wanna have it.
Justin Khanna: When, This is kind of my last question before we get into some rapid fire ones. When you think about projects that you're launching collaborating with [00:40:00] bringing from zero to one in the world, how do you define success with those projects?
Arnold Byun: Success, I think is, is so relative, but for me personally, I think it's when an X amount of people show up and actually enjoy the experience. One of the things I try to do is there's, there's a feedback option that you can enable on talk where 24 hours after that service or a popup or event, it automatically triggers a feedback and it warrants feedback.
And I, I know it's pretty elementary, but I think that always listening to people is, is very important regardless of like wherever you are in your career. And so I think for me, success is defined. The feedback and the people that I've come to enjoy might pop up our project and their thoughts on it.
I, I especially love it when, yeah.
Justin Khanna: Just quick, do you have a feedback question that gets better answers than others?
Arnold Byun: So the feedback is actually pretty open ended, like, at least from talk it's pretty generic. It'll just have like, I think it's like five different smiley faces, , and then it'll warrant them if they have any additional. But most people have things to say, you know, and that's something I've, I've come to learn.
Like everyone has an opinion , you just have to ask for it. And I do enjoy reading through those and I try to respond to each and every one. But yeah, I think success is define very much by the people that I've come and enjoy the experience.
Justin Khanna: It's a Saturday morning, your first day of your weekend, and you kind of step into your kitchen. How do you make your eggs for yourself
Arnold Byun: Oh, I think for end I'll probably go something easy and just to scrambled. That's kind of how I like my eggs.
Justin Khanna: soft? Do you go like cook 'em all the way hard, Like how scramble preference.
Arnold Byun: so I, I like to kind of go somewhere in between, like, not too hard, but like soft and bushy enough, or like I can have it with like bacon or something, or if I wanna make it into a sandwich, it's, it's pretty versatile that way.
Justin Khanna: Is there a book that's can be about management, can be about design, can be about entrepreneurship, can even be about food or beverage.
Is there a book that's been particularly impactful for you in your career?
Arnold Byun: [00:42:00] I mean, I didn't know it at the time, but I think looking back, setting the table has always been a classic for me. And I think it's timeless. I think it was written in like 2006, but a lot of things still hold true to this day. So I used to read that like crazy and the kind of like my bible almost.
So I think that's, that's definitely a recommended read. I know Will just released his new book, Can't wait till I get my hands on that. I would recommend it either. So for, for me, like those restaurant books are great, but there's a ton of great leadership manager books out there too that I can't remember on the top of my head.
But like Seth, Seth Bolden has a lot of great books. But yeah, I think it's important to, to always be reading.
Justin Khanna: What's something that doesn't end up on your Instagram, as in you don't share it very publicly or widely that you're into it, but you still get excited about it or, or love it.
Arnold Byun: I just adopted a, a rescue, like a pup, like five, I think. Think it's like five months. I. Always thought that people that watched dog content on Instagram were fools and just like we have literally nothing better do. But then like at one point I realized I'm that person. So it's not something that I'm very proud of it from my former self.
But here I am, you know, like my real are all just dogs now. You know?
Justin Khanna: listen, man's in Seattle, the stat is that there are more dogs than there are children in the city.
Arnold Byun: I believe that. I believe that they're ador.
Justin Khanna: Yeah. Yeah. I mean that might be the, the answer to this question, but you know, usually you can go deeper on this if you want. What's one thing you've changed your mind on in recent memory?
Arnold Byun: Changing my mind on, on recent memory? Hmm. Oh, la I actually thought LA was horrible. Hated la. When I used to live in New York, go to school in New York, work in New York, I hated. Always chat on it. I thought it was the worst place on earth. Thought I would never move there. Here I am two years later.
Love it. So it is that was a big change of, change of pace and change of mind for me.
Justin Khanna: Is there a, a concept or a a style? So like, I'm thinking of like the be before Chipotle, like sure, there were like concepts that were the kind of like build your own [00:44:00] whatever, but then for whatever, like timing operational savvy the state of of cities at that time, Chipotle could become Chipotle.
Is there a style of concept that. Either seen in the underbelly of places that you're like, that's really underrated, or if done well that could, that could crush.
Arnold Byun: Underrated, but also just the future, just chef's counters. I think that's always been something that, that needs to, more people need to adopt it. Man. Chefs doubling as servers.
Justin Khanna: You somehow get a call right after this interview that you've just won an all expenses paid trip to eat at your dream restaurant and when you get there, there's someone you've always wanted to speak with, waiting to have dinner. What is that restaurant and who is that person?
Arnold Byun: Oh, that's a good one. So many people that I wanna meet right now. I mean, restaurant, I mean, I, I, I've actually, you know, I, I joined cuz I dined there first as a, as a guest. Loved my experience and I. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna enjoy it. Again, it was like a super outof body experience for me. So to make's probably in the corner so I can talk to this person.
The person that we wanna talk to is, I, I wanna talk to Will and kind of pick his brain a little bit more about like, what the hell really happened? No one really knows what happened unless you're right with them. But like the whole Empire King crashing down, you know, and no man are gone and I don't know, would just kind of love to hear the truth about what.
Justin Khanna: Okay to speak on this for two seconds because I I feel the same way about Chef Daniel. Like he, it's so easy to dunk on that guy right now because he's walking around in designer coats and he
Arnold Byun: I know, dude. The shoes.
Justin Khanna: losing staff. Yeah, he's losing staff. And World's 50. Like all, all of it. All of it. And it, but Hey.
Will, can we just talk like chef to chef for a second? Like, can, can we hear your side? Like, so, and, and I also, I've, I've been trying to, you know, slide in Will's dms too. Cause I would love to talk to Will as his book comes out, if he's doing a media tour thing. Like if you get a chance to talk to Will on, Are, would you have Will on your podcast?
Arnold Byun: No, he's not Asian, unfortunately. So you can have him
Justin Khanna: it, got it. I was just curious. I was just curious, man, [00:46:00] because you know I, I, I would assume your guys' conversation would be awesome, you know?
Arnold Byun: Yeah, no. Maybe, maybe like a special one off episode, but
Justin Khanna: Yeah, I get it. I get it. You might have spoken on this already.
What do you think chefs can be doing better to help the next generation? Is kind of a, a, a last question that I like to ask folks, just because that's, that's, that's where I came from. That's my audience. And I think regardless of your kitchen experience, I think that because you've worked so closely with chefs, you, you're perfectly qualified to weigh in on this too.
Arnold Byun: Yeah, I think I've seen some great chefs and bad chefs, the the great ones. What I realized is they really mentor the people coming up. They really take the time to sit down and have a conversation. They don't scream at them, obviously. And I think we can see, I think chefs just have to be a bit more cultivating.
But I think we can all do a better job in trying to like pass on the torch and teach the next generation.
Justin Khanna: Arnold, where do you wanna send folks? Where can people go follow you? This is just huge appreciation and kudos to you for, for what you're working on and what you do for the industry and just wishing you continued success. And just it's been an honor to have you on the show.
Arnold Byun: I appreciate you, man. Yep. You can follow me on Instagram at Arnold beyond my full name. There's two brands or companies I currently operate. One is with one, the other is mom. Mom just branched off into kind of two different things as well. So there's mom.market. The other one's, Mom dot General Store Mom Market is a monthly popup around la and the other general store is a first brick and mortar that we opened in Pasadena, California.
The only bad part about that interview is that we couldn't have gotten more time. I'm really, really excited to potentially have a part two with Arnold in the future. Again, as I shared at the top of this conversation, I really respect him a lot, and if you haven't gotten a chance to get some branding inspiration from the types of marketing materials that Arnold puts out, I highly, highly recommend you give him a follow.
It's just such inspiring. Presentations of, of food and thinking about events and in infusing hospitality into things like popups that for a lot of us can [00:48:00] feel a little rough and tumble, but not with, with with Arnold. Certainly. If you want to check out the repertoire flagship educational product right now, I'd highly recommend you check out Total Station nomination.
It's all about becoming a. Performer in professional kitchens. It's all the lessons that I kind of take away and look at when I'm looking at someone who's working a station at a restaurant and I say, Do they possess this? Are they well developed in that? Have they thought about this yet? And with a lot of those, if, if the answer is no, it's, it's no wonder that you're finding that you can't get ahead, that you've plateaued or that you're not getting chosen for a management position.
And so instead of just, you know, waxing on poetically about it, I made a whole course about it. It's available in the description. or@joinrepertoire.com slash T S D. My name is Justin Conna. It's really been great to have you with me for this episode. Roll the outro.
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