Corey Chow | Overcoming Fear, Leading in Kitchens and Asking for Help - Ep 158
Episode Notes
My guest today is Corey Chow, the executive chef of the Stanwich Golf Club, and famously before that, the chef-de-cuisine of Per Se. If you’ve picked up the latest edition of the Thomas Keller book titled The French Laundry + Per Se, you’ll notice Corey’s name because he was the co-author.
This episode is also cool because of the connection we shared back when I was an extern at the three Michelin star restaurant, Per Se, Corey was my sous chef.
—
Corey Chow's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coreydchow/
The Stanwich Club's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_stanwich_club/
Per Se NY's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perseny/
📖 Want to get your hands on the cookbook that Corey co-authored? https://geni.us/tfl-perse-cookbook
—
If you come across something you ended up having to search for, send me a message to help make these Show Notes better!
—
🧑🏽🍳✍🏼 Organize your valuable recipes, for free, with meez: https://geni.us/meez-trp
—
Justin's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@justinkhanna
Follow The Repertoire Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joinrepertoire/
—
What's next? 👇
Repertoire Pro Community for Industry Professionals
Support the show for just $5 a month - join the Community!
My latest upload on YouTube
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
Get in touch with Justin
Follow along on Instagram
Sign up for one-on-one Coaching with Justin
Browse the gear used to create this
💌Send me mail:
Justin Khanna
212 Broadway E #22725
This episode’s transcript is auto-generated using software. Typos, misspellings, and errors might appear. If you have questions or fixes you’d like applied to this transcript, please reach out to hello@joinrepertoire.com.
[00:00:00]
the executive chef of the Stanwich Golf Club, and famously before that, the chef de cuisine of per se, and if you've picked up the newest Thomas Keller French Laundry Plus per se cookbook, you'll notice Corey's name because he was a co-author on that. Book, one of the few people who got input into that book who helmed his three Michelin star restaurant called Per se, and Corey was my sous chef when I was an extern at per se, and he certainly was a very formidable figure and someone who I drew a lot of inspiration from in kind of adopting my mindset of finesse and precision.
Again, I give him so many props in this interview and it was such a joy to be able to connect with him, after so many years and just, you know, it's one of [00:01:00] those things where you, you see, In your Mount Rushmore of your career and being able to speak with him one on one was just a, a real joy. And we talk about what he was like as a chef to Bart, things that he's taken leadership-wise from his experience, advice that he would give to someone on a station, and so many more dot points.
If at any point you wanna pause, you wanna go ahead and follow Chef Corey online or check out any of the specific linkable things, books, resources, anything like that, please do check out the show notes or the description of this podcast. Thanks so much for being with me. Here we go.
Justin Khanna: One more quick help. I think I can provide to this interview is an index of sorts. After listening through to our edited conversation, I realized there were certain words, abbreviations that we discussed that didn't exactly have a definition that we explicitly laid out. So I'm going to lay them out for you here.
And then when you hear them in the conversation, you can know exactly what we're talking about. So let's start with JB. Corey will say JB, multiple times in this conversation. Those are the initials of Jonathan Benno. He was the opening chef of per se. He was the chef to cuisine. Then he went on to do his own Italia.
Italian [00:02:00] inspired projects in New York like Lincoln. And then harta You'll also hear Corey mentioned the name Chung. This is Chung chow. So first name Chung, last name chow. Another sous chef at per se. So think of it like Chung was to Corey as Corey was to me. And so that's why you'll hear Corey speak. So fondly of him.
RTG he mentions the words R T G that stands for ready to go. So it's a quick way to give the green light on a prep task or a component. So if you're responsible for making, say the pickle mustard seeds for the lobster dish, I might look over to you and say, Hey, are those pickled mustard seeds RTG and you'd respond their RTG chef.
So that's our TG. Hacher. So it hacher spelled H a C H E R is the French word for chop, but in Thomas Keller's kitchens. This is a unique texture you can get in certain foods where you specifically chop them with a knife versus using something like a food processor. So think about it when you use a food processor that gives you this result at the end, where some bits get pureed, some are still chunky, but when you take the time to use a knife, some people would use two knives when they would hacher things.
This tends to be [00:03:00] like a beat or knife or, you know, like a long, like 9, 10, 12 inch knife that you just kind of like rock back and forth on a mixture of ingredients on your cutting board. And you get this mixture of like, Cooked beets or kale or olives where you can do these two handed quenelles of them on the plate after they've been hashed shade. And so think of it just like a minced mixture of ingredients, like a relish or a top-notch. If there are any language points that i missed please screenshot the podcast episode share it with me on instagram or twitter with your question and i will be sure to get you your answer i know this was a long intro but i didn't want anybody feeling lost in this interview i've got a quick message from our sponsor and we'll get right into the conversation
Hey, quick question. Are you keeping your recipes in docs still some sort of digital tool to keep track of all of your ideas? I know I've certainly amassed quite the collection across one too many platforms over the years. I've got three different notebooks, cloud-based spreadsheets, task managers, stuff that I've covered in videos before on in other podcasts.
And if you've spent time in multiple restaurants yourself or even gotten inspired by cookbooks on your day off, you probably. [00:04:00] What I mean, and if that's the case, you should try me. Over the next few weeks, I'll be using their absolutely free tier of their recipe organization software to start consolidating everything that I have.
That's my entire catalog into this incredibly powerful recipe tool. It's designed by chefs. For chefs, and after having Josh Sharky the founder on this very podcast, a few weeks back, I knew this product was legit. So what me does is it transforms your recipe content into powerfully digital formats that let you organize, scale, train, and cost like never before.
I want you to see why me is loved by over 12,000 culinary professionals and why it's what I chose to use for this organizational project. This was no small undertaking. I know your recipes are valuable. They could probably be smarter than how you've probably got them stored right now. Sign up for a free That's right, free account.
Get meez.com/trp. R p. That's G E T M E E z.com. T R P T P is for the Repertoire [00:05:00] podcast. If you're early on in your career, this is one of the most impactful investments you can make while you're learning. Don't get behind like I did, and if you've been in the business for a while now, there's a massive upside to having all of your recipes stored safely in me having everything in one place.
So why don't we get all of our recipes organized together? If you really wanna keep yourself accountable to this, go ahead and share your progress with me on Instagram. Take some screenshots of how you're enjoying me, and I'll be sharing your success. With other folks that want to get in on this challenge.
Again, you can snag your free account today@getme.com slash tp and thanks again to me for sponsoring this episode.
Justin Khanna: I was reflecting on the fact that I don't think I've ever actually personally heard stories of you as a chef de partie. Everybody wants to talk about you as a chef to cuisine and now as an executive chef, but what were you like as a chef de partie?
Corey Chow: Oh man, I was quiet. I was scared. Always, always listening.
Cause you know, when I first started as a comey [00:06:00] I'm like listening to the, you know, more or less culture, the, the terminology, all the things that everyone was talking about, like, you know, for, you know, something simple like RTG or like you know, hash, right? It's like what are they talking about? You know, like, especially if I've never been in an environment like that.
I'm like, what are they talking about? And I was one too scared to ask. So like I, for example, hash. Looking at all my books, there's no word that says hash. What does this mean? Like, what are these people talking about? I just see them chop stuff. I don't know. I still don't know what that means, you know? And I was still too scared to ask them.
So, you know, luckily the come's that I was surrounded by was like, you know, Julia Sullivan who else? Garrett Sullivan Gar, Gareth Evans. Sean Dickens, all these people, they're like, you know, they actually had more, they had a lot more experience than I did, and they were, they're nice enough to, to kind of explain things.
And even Chung, when he was the sous chef back there, he, you know, he helped a little a lot. But in the beginning it was really hard to, to ask or to speak [00:07:00] up. You know, I would, a fun story, I like to share with everyone's, like, I, I didn't know how to find out the information, so, Go on my days off to Kitchen Arts and letters and pretend to buy something, but try to skim through all the books as to, to research and to to look up everything, you know.
Cause back then still like go, you didn't really Google everything. So I just thought that was the best way. But, you know, I, I just put my head down and work and listen and followed, followed directions as much as I can and, and kind of see , see examples everyone else getting yelled at and say, okay, I'm not doing that.
But I mean, for the most part, you know, I, I always, I always kept my head down and, and try to push for myself and push for the team. But, you know, I wasn't trying to prove anything to like, create something and be like, Hey chef, try this. You know? I wasn't like that. I was just like, okay, I'm, do what you tell me.
You tell me to go home. I'll go home. Tell me to Brun walls this. I'll do that. I just kept, kept my head down and kept, [00:08:00] kept, kept focused on what, what the task at hand was, and that that's, that's how I got through it pretty much every day. ,
Justin Khanna: feel free to fact check me on any of this, but the story goes that when you were 28 and you moved to New York, you did a trail it per se, and you didn't get the job offer.
But also another thing I haven't heard you talk about is what did they tell you why you didn't get the job? Like, did they give you a specific reason?
Corey Chow: I mean, JB was, JB was. Soft spoken and man of few words, right? So after my trail, actually not even after my trail, it was right before staff meal on it was my third day or second day.
It was my second day of the trail. And he goes, you got a minute. I was like, sure. And then he goes, you know, thanks for coming. I know you traveled, you know far from to come see us and be with us in the kitchen. And then he was, You know, I, I kind of don't have anything for you right now. And then all of a sudden, you know, that's when your stomach just drops.
You're just like, Ugh, okay. That [00:09:00] sucks, . You know? And then I had to finish out the rest of the day. Oh, man. Cause that I think you, I spent one day with the Comey kitchen, and the next day you spend with the PM team. And then I was just like, oh, wow. All right. So I. There it was this trip, , you know, I finished out the day and then I came out with a few of my friends and we stayed at the, a hotel down 57th street right around the corner, and they, I mean, it was late.
It was already like, you know, one, two o'clock in the morning. They were already sleeping. And I got home. I got into the hotel room and I just, you know, I, I think I grabbed a tall boy on my way home. All my friends were like crashed out on couch on the beds and I just, I found the chair and I just sat there and drank a beer and I was like, right.
I guess that's it. I'm going home tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.
How to bounce back from rejection.
Justin Khanna:
Right, right. How long was it between that rejection moment and actually getting the job? It was three months, I think.
Corey Chow: Okay. Okay. And, and then jb.
JB called me and then he. [00:10:00] You know, I'm reaching out because we have something open. I was wondering if you're still coming, and I said, chef, when do you need me? Amazing. He's like, I, I can't remember. My start date was September something. I, I arrived two weeks before without a plan. My only plan was I booked like a hotel, a hotel room for a couple days, and then I had a hostel for a couple days.
And in that week I had to figure out where I'm gonna live , while starting my new job in like three days or something.
Justin Khanna: I wanna pivot to, to, to more modern or, you know, steps further along in your career and talk about technique, cuz I don't know if you see yourself as this, but for me, as an extern at per se, and I don't exaggerate when I say this, you were the pinnacle of precision and technique for me in that brigade.
Most valuable part of your repertoire?
Justin Khanna: And I took every opportunity I could to watch how you could like simultaneously lock into a project, but then also like be aware consciously of like everything that was happening in the kitchen. And so I'm, I'm starting to ask this [00:11:00] question to all of my guests. What is the most valuable part of your repertoire?
Corey Chow: I would say it's almost your senses, like you have see smell. Hear Right. And I think I, I've had conversation about this recently with, with my managers and with cooks, and the awareness of what's going on in a kitchen is how, how you know, where everything is, how things smell. And for example, when I walk into a kitchen, anywhere I go, whether it's a home or a kitchen, I, I have to inspect where everything is before I even do anything right.
That's like me, Claus. It's mental me applause. It's, it's all kinds of me. But I guess you learn this when, when you're, when you're a young chef and then you learn it from your surroundings, from everyone else around you is when that's how you become the chef is, is listening and you're hearing Chung [00:12:00] facilitate the whole Comey team, right?
Like, okay, he just told Julia to Brun walls. At the same time, he's already organizing me and Gareth on staff meal all at the same time and listening, and he can hear the dishwasher, you know, making a loud noise, and he has to go through that. And then he can smell the stock almost burning and coming back to, you know, like, it's using your senses.
It's using all those things from your experience in that home of a kitchen that you, that you've made your home. You know, right. Everything has a. Whether it's your me, or at per se, right? You everyone knew where the nine pants were, no matter what. Everyone knew where the third pants were. Everyone knew where the stock pots were.
So you're able, I guess maybe that's just the organization of, of how Thomas created those, his kitchens and everyone knew where everything was, so it's like you needed that, that extra 30 seconds. But ch please can you get me the Rondo to, to stir fry my staff? You would [00:13:00] have, you would know it would be back there in two minutes and two seconds for you and everyone can do that for you.
And everyone had one objective and that was to succeed together. It wasn't like, oh, I made my stir fry for staff meal, but you guys didn't get your rice. It was never like that. No matter who. No matter who it was, right? No matter who it was, everyone had that same mentality and, and it was a it we fueled off of each other.
But you know, it's all those little things and, and it's, it's teaching others around you that, so when you're a chef party and, and the other chef parties are telling you, what are you doing? Like you're, you're burning this and you should do it like this, right? They're also correcting your, your peers.
That's when, that's when it's the best, is when your peers are doing that. That's when you learn the most, because if all your peers are telling you that you're doing it wrong, then you're doing it wrong. The sous chefs, it's their job to correct you. They're, [00:14:00] they're gonna do it. It's my job to, to correct everyone.
But when your peers are standing there like, you need to do it like this, or you should do it like this because it's faster, then you see it. Oh, okay. But then that's, that's how you, when you're the person saying that to another, another teammate, another chef, that's when you're taking those steps to become a chef.
To become the sous chef. To become the chef Cuis. Those are the little things that, that people don't really realize that that's what's going to help you become the leader a leader.
Justin Khanna: This might completely flop, and if it does, we can cut it from the episode. But I wanted to try something with you because I'm obsessed with going beyond the kind of broad brush advice that certainly works and it applies.
Case Study
Justin Khanna: But listeners of this show love the kind of tactical points that they can use at work in the kitchen the next day. And I think the easiest way to get those is with the case study. So I'm really looking for your brutal feedback here. Don't worry about offending me because I really want to be this kind of sacrificial lamb in service of, [00:15:00] of progress and learning, and I, I feel more than confident now, so don't, don't worry about that.
The only station that I really ever worked at French lottery was cheese station. I trailed a little bit on Canopy Station, but for this exercise, let's say I'm on cheese station and I'm just really struggling and the specific problems that I'm dealing with in this case study is keeping up with that moment in the middle of service when the first seating is getting cheese and I have a couple of like veg cheese courses going out at the same time, and also the second seating is getting cornets and I'm just not able to keep up.
You walk over to my station, what advice do you have for me?
Corey Chow: Just ask. for help Huh Uhhuh Just speak up. Yeah, because I've been there and you can't do it by yourself a hundred percent hands down. You can't do it by yourself. That's why Garma has two people. If your partner is going down, then you asked that. That was, that's, that was great.
That was what was great about the flow of that kitchen is that the [00:16:00] canopy guy isn't busy at. Sure your own PE are in the oven, but everyone else can help you. The fish guy is definitely not doing anything Right. So you can, if the campaign guy is staying, if I'm standing there, I'm be like, oh man, he's, he's gonna, you know why?
Because if, if you're going down, then everyone else is gonna go down, down the line. Cause it's just the flow. That's just the flow. You guys set the tone. That's why, that's what's great is when, that's why you have to be set up for your station so you can do all those extra things. So the fish guy is gonna be like, I'll stand there.
I'll be like, John, what are you doing? Go help with, go Help with Plate Some Flo Girl or something, or help those guys out. Like you're just standing there. Like even the , right? The AME would go over there. That that's when you, that's when the team starts to come together. Together. Sure. As a sous chef or as a senior chef party, you'd be like, can help facilitate that.
But once everyone knows how to do that stuff, man, that's when service is easy. Right? When you can hear the tickets, right. Listening, you hear the tickets, you're like, okay. Now it's coming in. Right? That's when, [00:17:00] that's when, all right, it's time to buckle up, or that's when you start getting ahead on cores.
And, but that's, it's your communication. If you're struggling, the first thing I would tell you is like, just ask. I'll help you, or, you know, or, or the first thing I would say, what do you need? Right? What do you need? And then say, don't, you know, don't be afraid to ask. It's okay. It happens, right? I. love it
Justin Khanna: Thank you.
Thank you for that. I, I, again that was a shot. I, I, I shot my shot on that. I didn't know if that was gonna work, but like, huge, huge props. Like that's that's a, that's a leadership principle that I don't think gets talked about enough cuz it's this, I don't know, the, the toxic culture of like, feeling some satisfaction to see someone go down.
Corey Chow: Always get scared. People always get scared get
scared to ask. I don't think it's ego, but you're just too scared to, to ask for help because everyone else around you does it. Or like, you don't wanna be the guy that always goes, that always needs a hand or something. I get it. I was there and you are scared, but that's what teaches trust or that that's what [00:18:00] it's not.
It's not like you're the jerk that's just standing around, oh wait, I need something. You know? If you're trying your hardest, everyone's going to notice that. No one's going to no one's going to deny you of that. I wanna talk about.
How do you think about fun in your work life?
Justin Khanna: So I saw some of the presentations you started to do when you became Chef de cuisine and, and considering per se has such a structure to it and a set of these kind of frequently used components, I would see like the fun knife cuts that you were doing and some of the flavor combinations or presentations that you would lean into.
And I was like, man, it looks like Corey's having a lot of fun right now. And for folks listening, fun might be the last thing that they think about in these intense three star environments, like per se. And so you can use the word play or humor if you wanna replace that with fun. But how do you think about.
in your work life?
Corey Chow: I think the fun part is sure, it's the creating part of doing, you know, a knife cut or a different sauce or, but it's also getting everyone inspired around you, you know, and because just, you know, because I have experience and cuz I'm a chef there, [00:19:00] it's my also, it's also my job to help inspire others.
That's, that's what makes that place the best. The menu meetings and everyone's ideas and how I can teach the newest cheese guy how to make a great ado with his ideas maybe. Right. So I don't, I don't think you've ever seen it, but when I, after I started to be this chef for a little bit, I was thinking about these ideas and inspirations, you know, where we get inspired from and you know, the wall, the narrow wall in between PDR and Comey Kitchen.
Yep. Behind. That really narrow hallway and it has, you know, it has the, the, the box to turn the knob and stuff. Yep. But on the opposite side of that wall, I put on a big dry erase board. And on this dry erase board, I had a pee touch of everyone's name, including my, my name, sous chefs and all the chef parties.[00:20:00]
And then there's a dry erase marker. And it was the inspiration board. Wow. And everyone wrote their ideas that they had, that, a project that they wanted to do. They wanted to try and put it on the board. And then we would, when we do a mini, mini or coming up with ideas for the menu, we'd walk by me or a suha and look at, look at Justin's pasta that he wants to try as.
Fava bean. Sure. We've done fava bean a million times. What are you thinking of? Fava bean farce. Well, I was thinking fava bean and savory. Oh, okay. Well, what do you think? How do you think we should do that? I don't know. Chef. How, what do you think? Okay, well, maybe we should try it with, you know, we don't have to do ricotta.
We can do marscapone and savory or, or some order, some sort of other mild cheese. You know, it, it stems from that. And that was really, that was, I was proud to show people. that You know, look it, everyone has an idea here and we're, we just feed off of each other. [00:21:00] That's what makes everything so unique to how we did it.
You know, it's, it was just another version of what we did before, right. But it gave everyone a little more confidence to, they don't have to tell anyone their idea, right? You can just walk up there, write it and see what everyone thinks.
Justin Khanna: it's like planting a seed. It's like where it's gonna grow. Yeah. Yeah.
It really, it could change. I've always wanted to Yeah, go ahead.
Corey Chow: If you Google I'll, yeah. Yeah. So my, the fun part of that was when I wanted, when I wanted the inspiration board, so what is, what's the definition of inspiration? . The fun part was that, okay, the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative, and there's synonyms. This is where it's cause synonym of. Inspiration
but [00:22:00] you know, it was just such a, it was a great idea to, to have share something, even if you're brand new, like, oh, what is this for? Why, why are these guys, is this how they create? And then even too, someone would write something. We would explain to them what it, what it was. And it doesn't have to be a fluid gel or some, you know, molecular thing, but it was, it could be something classic.
If you wanna do cocobon, you can make cocobon. Sure. We'll teach you how to do it for staff meal. You know, and it could be something as simple as butchering fish. Right. And, and, and that's, that was the great thing. You don't have to come up with Dish. You can help. You can learn how to be, how to butcher, then that's awesome.
Finesse. Finesse is a synonym to inspiration. Got it. And then when I saw that definition and I was like, that's it. So we wrote. Chef Dan bcu helped me create the board and then [00:23:00] on top of the board we put the definition of inspiration and put the synonyms and put finesse as one of them. I love it.
Super, super cool. It's been a while.
Convo with Chef Keller
Justin Khanna: You're one of the, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's like less than probably 10 people who have had that conversation with Chef Keller. When he asks you to step into a role like the chef de cuisine of one of his three Michelin star places. If you're open to sharing, what does that conversation look like with Chef Keller?
Corey Chow: I
think
most of the conversation sometimes, you know it's coming, right? You kind of, I mean, that's where you're, that's where you're always prepped for the next step already. You can always tell who the next sous chef was, like the leadership that chef part would take, or the way they cook or the way they, they, they did.
They're out of place sets. Like, that's your out of place set cheese. When do you have time to do that? You know, I think you kind of already know. But at the same time, yes, it's like when the words come out [00:24:00] of his mouth, you're just like, holy crap, really like, Are you sure you're, you know, in my head yet?
Are you sure? You, you really wanna ask me that right now? But at the same time it's like, yeah, I was, you know, I was Eli's Exec soon I was running my own services. I was, you know, I was doing all the VIP menus for, for when I did so, so it's like, you know, I, I was somewhat prepared, you know, I obviously, I didn't do everything that the chef did, but we were prepared to, to run it as if the, you know, what was JB's favorite?
quote Treat it like it's your own one day be. So you treat it like you own. You're already running the restaurant by yourself, like hands down. This was, I have my quote right here, sitting on my white dry erase board. It's all over my office for these guys to see and.
Justin Khanna: Did I, I can't even imagine. Like, is there a set of metrics that Chef Keller asks for, or does he like ask you what you want to make out [00:25:00] of the role?
Like as you're having that conversation after he makes the ask, would you like to be, like, will you be chef de cuisine? Is it, and you can only probably speak to your experience, but what, what comes after that?
Corey Chow: I guess what comes after that? It's kind of. It's kind when you get the job and you're, and you're a young come and you know, the chef asks you, do you wanna work here? Do you wanna come, do you wanna work at, per se? It's like, yes, but you don't think about . Wait do I get benefits? You know, like, you know, those little things.
Yeah, yeah. Kinda just say, yes, the Chef Keller just asks you to be the chef cuisine at per se. I mean, it's just, yes. And then I'll figure it out after that, to be honest with you. You know, it's like, so when he asked me to help, The French Laundry per se. It's like yeah, , well, what else am I gonna say? No, but or, yes, but no.
It's like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. . It's, it's about a week after that. It's when you're like, oh, wait, what is, what is the, the What's the job requirements for it? , [00:26:00] you
Justin Khanna: know, you, you wrote, you, you co-authored with Chef David Breeden and I'm, I'm, I also would love to have Chef Breeden on the show some someday.
And considering you guys worked as kind of like East Coast, west Coast counterparts for that, for that, for the time that you were Chef Cuisine, I'm curious, is there a specific question that I should ask David if and when he comes on the show?
Corey Chow: I mean, I think we. Stories to share from where we come from.
Like, David, you know, David's stories were great. Like he's this mountain kid, you know, from Tennessee. She's like, man, look where he got. I mean, sure you guys can read it in the book. I, those are brief summaries of, of, of our experience, but no one knows our experiences that we've gone through in, you know, more than a decade of working in this environment, of this culture and the people that have gone through there.
I don't know if, I mean, I don't think we would ever change anything. Like, you know how people always say, oh, what would you change? Or the steps that you [00:27:00] take. But I mean, for David, like, I don't know, maybe it's like what makes him happy Now it might be different. Obviously we're older. Yeah, we're almost 15, 20 years.
Right. So it's, we're, we're all different phases of our lives. And what I mean, a fun one would be like what inspires us every single day? Right. He gets, he gets this, this awesome environment of Yountville , which you know, is inspiration every single day. And you know, obviously we, we know so many people, we get inspired by so many people every single day from where we, from the, I guess from where we, the kitchens that we create, you know, We didn't work at per se together.
You know, we wouldn't know Greg Backstrom, Tebo Joe Cash. Right. Justin Conna, right? Like all you guys like Chris Hot and we're all from all over the world. That's crazy.
Justin Khanna: . A hundred percent. A hundred percent. That, that was, that was actually a question I [00:28:00] had for you cuz you, you have. Made a bunch of changes.
You've stepped into this kind of new chapter where you're, you're a dad now, you're, you're in a different type of kitchen. You're outside of New York City, and from the outside looking in, it seems like you found more balance. And so I have people asking me all the time, like, Justin, I can't find work life balance in Michelin kitchens.
And it's like, I don't think that's a good question to be asking, but for you, how do you think about happiness in your life?
Corey Chow: It's kind of what you make of it. I mean, Cultures have changed from 10 years ago. The kitchen culture specifically the balance, specifically when, when I became the chef de cuisine and we were trying to think of, you know, how, how to what, what made us happy.
And it was to, you know, shrink the hours a little bit to, you know, I think some of the guys were coming in at like one, two o'clock and. They get to go to brunch before they came into work, you know? And that's [00:29:00] awesome. But I wanted to make, I wanted to help make that because I didn't get that opportunity, but it was what you make out of it.
And, you know, I think it is healthy for you to, to have two days off in a row, you know, the six days every week or every other. That's still hard. Like I, as much as I can, I. Try to make five days on, two days off, no matter what here. But you know, I think I have to tell people that you have to find something that can take your mind off of, off of the stress of it, right?
Because you're always thinking of your prep, your mis en place. What, what did I miss on my prep list to my partner? But at the same time, you gotta like decompress somehow. And that can be. You know, I think a lot of people do working out, it helps everyone or you know, sports or something. But it's funny when, when I started here at the club like a lot of these guys worked a [00:30:00] lot of hours.
And when I started cutting everyone's hours because it's not healthy and I wanted you guys to have two days off a row and some of these guys like, I don't know what to do. , and I'm. Well now it's your opportunity to find something to do. You know? And that's, you know, one of our specific cooks, he's now, he goes into the city every morning to take English classes, to learn English better.
And you know, and that's what makes him happy. But I think maybe for me it's helping people find that. And I think that's also part of creating your relationships and of. With your employees and with your staff and be like, well, this person likes video games. That person likes sports. You know? So then it's like, okay, well, you know, then that's how you know your team and that's how you create the relationship.
Like, Hey, you should, you know, are you gonna go check out the game tomorrow with the Lakers or something, or are you gonna go to the driving range? Or, you know, but it's helping to, to facilitate [00:31:00] that. I mean, for. You know, just spending time with my kids and I don't get to spend that much time with them from compared to before.
I mean, but now I get a little more time now that I have two. It's a big juggle too, but it's both days my, both my days off. I, I try to spend, you know with the family and, and try to just do something simple like go to swim class or something. Yeah, that's huge. My son just, my son just started introduction to baseball.
It's hilarious. Little kids, you know, run around and run the bases the wrong way. ,
Justin Khanna: You have these words that I've heard you use to describe these seasons in your career. So like, tenacity, persistence, perseverance. And I completely agree.
There's so much benefit to having this like grit to yourself as a professional. But in that moment when you're feeling that, like tap on your shoulder, that's saying just, You need to stop, throw in the towel. Corey, what is that self-talk like for yourself? To keep going,
Corey Chow: you kinda have to take a deep breath and just like [00:32:00] weighing out what can really, what's the benefit of pushing that, that hard, but also the benefit of taking the step back. You ever hear Will Guidara say Sometimes move a step forward, you gotta take two steps back. Right, right, right. I, I heard that when I, when I was part of the nomad.
I heard that a lot, but I never thought of it that way until I, until I left per se, to tell you the truth. That per se, I was just like, I'm gonna do whatever it takes and I will try my by myself first, which usually doesn't work, but I will still try my hardest and give it my all. As I got older, that's when I learned that sometimes you just have to stop real quick and regather yourself to take a breath for two minutes and then reevaluate your mis en place or your cornett set or, or you know, your butchery or [00:33:00] something.
If you're butchering, you know, a hundred, a hundred black bass or something, and like 75, you're just like, oh my. I'm gonna keep, but it's like, okay, maybe I have to just clean my station and re ice everything and rewash all the get new towels. Something simple like that. But when you're in that mode, you don't think about that.
I think that's a great quote that Will Guidara said, you know, make it nice when all those guys were there is to go forward. Sometimes you have to take two steps back and you never really think about it.
Justin Khanna: I'm gonna do some quick rapid fire ones, then I wanna let you go, but I, I would a thousand percent want do it a round two with you cuz there's, there's a couple questions that I haven't gotten a chance to, to get to and I'd, I'd love to ask 'em.
So it's, it's, it's a Saturday morning or one of those first two days off for the week and you kind of get into your kitchen and you're gonna make eggs for either yourself or for your kids in the morning. How do you make those eggs
Corey Chow: scrambled
Pet Peeves?
Justin Khanna: Soft? All the way hard. How do you,
Corey Chow: hard,
Justin Khanna: hard, interesting.
[00:34:00] As you, again, you, you being such a a pinnacle of, of technique and precision in my mind.
I'm curious if you have pet peeves in the kitchen that stick out. You've talked about dirty towels, you've talked about, you know, not, not putting your hand up and asking for help. What, what else comes to mind when I, when I say the word pet peeve?
Corey Chow: I mean dirty knives. Wiper towel a hundred percent.
Oh, wiper towel. I guess I have a wiper towel at home. You know, it's like, but yeah, wiper towel. Just to like do that real quick, real quick. Wipe. I think a wiper towel is the biggest one. I never really thought about that. Yep. Yeah. Wiper towel.
Justin Khanna: You somehow get a call right after this interview that you've just wanted an all expenses paid trip to eat at your dream restaurant, and when you get there, there's someone you've always wanted to speak with, waiting to have dinner with you.
What is that restaurant and who is that person?
Corey Chow: Oh man. What is that restaurant? It's probably, I'm gonna butcher it. It's like Lee Lee Kung Keen or something. It's the three Michelin star [00:35:00] dimsum restaurant on top of it might be the some famous hotel in, you know, Hong Kong. Mm-hmm. , I remember they had like a black truffle crab, fried rice or something.
But I've, I always wanted to, I've never been to Hong Kong. Who would be there? Would be my grandparents.
Did you get a chance to spend, cuz they were in restaurants, right? Like they were Yeah,
but we've never really talked about my career. My mom's dad, he passed away when I was young and he was a bartender.
He worked in restaurants in LA and then my, my dad's father, he passed away while I was at Per Se. I think as when I first became a sous chef. Wow. But I've never really eaten at like some fancy place with them, but I think that would be fun to have them both there.
Advice for next gen?
Corey Chow: Last question that I ask most of my guests and, and I'm especially curious to hear your answer, is, what do you think chefs can be doing better to help the next generation?
[00:36:00] You might have touched on some of this already, so feel free to remake a point.
I think put everyone in your shoes. No matter what, what? And give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Like everyone comes from all walks of life and we don't know each other and we have different experiences and it's, you know, it's a simple thing as saying hello to someone just to get, just to spark that.
Like, oh, okay. And I think patience is huge, right? Yeah. You always have to have a. patient Mindset with the young cook, the the senior cook, the, the, the front of the house team. And you know, like I said, you never really realize that until you get, until you're more seasoned or more experienced, you never really think about, you know, taking a step back to, to see what's really going on and how it affects people.
Your words, you know, those words affect.
people [00:37:00]
Corey, I'd consider this very successful round one. Again, would really like to continue. I, I wanna make sure you get outta here. But just thank you again for your time and just for, for everything that you do out there in the industry for
folks. I'm,
I'm, I'm happy to, to, to be talking with you right now and I'm proud of what you're doing and I think it's great.
It's great to,
Well, well, here we are together again at the end of another episode of the Repertoire podcast. If this is your first time listening, this is a show for hospitality creators who want to think better, increase their performance and believe that it's. Possible to take lessons from what others have already learned.
I am your host, Justin Conna, and if you're new here, I'd like to personally welcome you to the show. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Friendly heads up to check out the show notes inside of the description of this podcast. If you want to check out previous guests links to specifics that got brought up in this episode, as well as other helpful content that we create and share here online because.
Everything we do is focused on helping you along your journey. If you don't have a ton of time, the [00:38:00] best place to start is with some value sent straight to your inbox every single week. It's called the Repertoire Newsletter, where we share knowledge on sharpening your skills, asymmetric upside, and exploring the industry beyond the status quo.
If you subscribe, will keep you up to date on trends that are shaping. The hospitality creator ecosystem will share discounts on. Find as well as content that we've been producing ourselves and helpful articles that we've already read and decided are worth your time. Last up, if you want to connect with other industry professionals in the Repertoire pro community, you wanna check out courses like Total Station Domination or download free tools that we've created.
You can learn more@joinrepertoire.com. That's J O I N R e P E R T O I R. Dot com. The only ask for me is that if you enjoyed this episode, I'd really appreciate a review of this show on Apple Podcasts as well as Spotify to help the podcast universe know that people like us, like shows like this.
Regardless, I'll see you in the next episode. My name is Justin Khanna and I hope you have a good one.
