Myles Snider | How to Cook Intuitively, Growing Online, and Techniques-over-Recipes - Ep.
Episode Summary
My guest today is Myles Snider, host of the 80/20 Cooking Course and content creator!
Episode Notes
Introducing Myles Snider, a brilliant culinary enthusiast and entrepreneur, widely known as "@myles_cooks" on Twitter. With his expertise in the art of cooking and his innovative approach to food, Myles has been captivating audiences with his unique culinary creations and sharing his passion for gastronomy through his engaging online presence. In this podcast interview, we delve into Myles' culinary journey, exploring his inspirations, techniques, and the impact of his creative endeavors on the world of food.
Show Notes: Myles's Course: http://8020cooking.com
Myles on Twitter: https://twitter.com/myles_cooks
Get 3 months FREE of 7shifts for your business: https://www.joinrepertoire.com/7shifts
Heartwood - Tulum: https://www.heartwoodtulum.com/
Vespertine - LA: https://www.vespertine.la/
Destroyer - LA: https://www.destroyer.la/
Meteora - LA: https://meteora.la/
Mission Chinese Food Cookbook - Danny Bowien: https://geni.us/zZx4Uim
Chris Bianco: https://www.instagram.com/pizzeriabianco/
Francis Malman: https://www.instagram.com/francismallmann/
Peter Thiel: https://twitter.com/peterthiel
Jordan Kahn: https://www.instagram.com/kahnjordan/
Justin's piece on the NFT boom for Chef's: https://support.justinkhanna.com/posts/nft-chefs-worst-michelin-restaurant-and-restaurant-equity
Cedric Grolet: https://www.instagram.com/cedricgrolet/
Myles talks about Underrated vs Overrated: https://twitter.com/myles_cooks/status/1638629363066236932
Dr John Sarno - Mind-Body Healing: https://geni.us/owVK
Babish's Brick and Mortar: https://www.instagram.com/bedandbabish/
Travis Lett: https://twitter.com/travis_lett
Danny Bowien: https://www.instagram.com/dannybowienchinesefood/
Frank Prisinzano: https://www.instagram.com/frankprisinzano/
Justin's Instagram: @justinkhanna
Follow The Repertoire Podcast on Instagram: @joinrepertoire
—
What's next? 👇
Take the 5-Day-Kitchen-Productivity Challenge
Support the show for $19 a month via the Repertoire Pro Community for Industry Professionals
My latest upload on YouTube
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
Get in touch with Justin
Follow along on Instagram
Sign up for one-on-one Coaching with Justin
Browse the gear used to create this
💌Send me mail:
Justin Khanna
212 Broadway E
Unit 22725
Seattle, WA 98102 USA
—
This episode’s transcript is auto-generated using software. Typos, misspellings, and errors might appear. If you have questions or fixes you’d like applied to this transcript, please reach out to hello@joinrepertoire.com.
What is up folks? Justin Khanna back with you for another episode of the Repertoire podcast. My guest today is Myles Snider. Miles was one of my early TikTok follows, and this was right when I was kind of, you know, getting into researching what it would be like to cook vertical content on some of these social media platforms.
And, you know, miles talks about how his relationship with TikTok has changed over time. But you know, here on the Repertoire podcast we gas our. And so to talk about Miles, just for a hot second here, he is a chef who was born in the Midwest similar to, to where I was born, and he ultimately ended up studying in Mexico and then cooking in a open wood fire kind of kitchen setup.
And it was not just open fire, but it was fine dining. It was in a country where he didn't speak the language, and there's so much to learn from miles in how he navigated that chapter in his career and then ultimately to what he's doing now in doing culinary coaching for people that. Cook, improve their ability to cook at home, how he's thinking about doing pop-up dinners, how he's thinking about health and making sure that he can continue to cook for years to come. There's so much to enjoy and, and even being like tech savvy, there's so much to, to take away from this conversation and we, we, we cover a wide range of topics. I even thought, I think we talk about crypto for a little bit in this conversation and so if you're interested in that, that kind of cross section between creating stuff online, Doing things in person and trying to find that balance where it's like you don't live a life that's exclusively on the internet.
And then also you're not unleveraged at all being a chef that's just like just behind the stove all day. I think that there's a lot of insights that you can glean from this conversation. And so if you wanna check out Miles, you wanna check out his ck, you wanna follow him on Twitter or any of the other specific linkable things that we discussed, I highly recommend you check out the show notes.
Those are always available just below in the description of this podcast, and without further a. Let's learn from miles.
Listen, as much as I know, I say we're in the food business in a lot of ways, we're in the people business. And what that often requires is team management between trying to get the latest schedule out the door, keeping track of all the time off requests your team puts in and finding out where your labor is tracking for the day.
It can be all so overwhelming. Seven shifts is that secret weapon type tool. That's your operations best asset. Let seven shifts help you streamline your team's work schedule. If you want to see the difference in your team's productivity and satisfaction. Faction. Seven shifts is giving you listeners a three-month free trial of their, the works tier, which I'm actually super stoked on because it's unlimited employees on this trial. So it's not like other trials where you kind of just get a little bit of the stuff. You can do this with unlimited employees regardless of the size of your business.
So you can really kick the tires on the product and test all the great features like payroll integration and advanced reporting. Visit join repertoire.com/seven shifts. That's the number seven S H I F T S
Or you can easily just click the link in the description of this podcast to try seven shifts now and see the difference for yourself. Thanks so much to seven shifts for sponsoring this episode.
Miles Snider, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
I wanted to, you, you are pretty open with giving your background in restaurants on some of your social media accounts, and so folks can do a little bit of a deep dive there.
And it's not like we're not gonna touch on your background. I just am not a huge fan of doing the, like, tell us about your background, start to a podcast. So I, I would love to start with your time at Heartwood to kind of set the stage a little bit. I'd love for you to talk about either your favorite day at Heartwood, if one comes to mind, or a day at Heartwood where you learned a lesson that really impacted you and you still take that lesson with you to this day.
Yeah. I guess I'll start with the latter. So when I so I started at Heartwood right after I'd finished this very short culinary school program in Mexico City. So, you know, I wasn't classically trained. I didn't go to like CIA or do a, a long program like that. And so I went there down there and I think I was very naive about what it was gonna entail.
I mean, I thought that I was gonna be like living in a cool beach town and casually cooking at this restaurant.
you just set the scene for where Heartwood is
yeah, yeah. Sorry. So Heartwood is in Tulum, Mexico. It's a open fire restaurant built basically in the jungle in Tulum. There's a little bit of electricity, but not very much. Very few appliances.
No, you know, no stove, just a wood-fired oven and a wood-fired grill. So it's a very sort of like rustic, but really, really good restaurant doing some exceptional food. But when I started there, I was, I was, I got immediately put onto fish duty. So I was. Like scaling, gutting and fileting fish all day, every day.
And the original plan was that I was gonna be doing that for however many months until, you know, the executive chef decided to move me up. And I one of the guys who was working on the line, like two weeks into me being there two or three weeks, this guy who was working on the line quit. So I'm in the back doing fish and the chef, who I was terrified of at the time, comes up to me and he goes you know, the, a spot on the line opened up.
You're gonna start tonight. You have two days to learn that station. Don't fuck it up. And I remember just being so nervous about it because this was the you know, it, the, the kitchen setup of heartwood isn't like traditional cuz there's, you know, just the way that it, it works. But this would be kind of like a guard, maje type of station.
And there was like, Like 60 different individual things on this station, you know, different like herbs and pickles and this and that, that you had to prep. And so I remember just like going with a notebook and like drawing a diagram of everything and like, you know, just in my mind it felt like it would be impossible to do that quickly.
And long story short is that I ended up being able to do it. And you know, I started on the line that night and within a couple days I had like mastered the station. I was able to prep everything and all of that. And what I took away from that experience was, was basically that like the sort of self-imposed like limitations you have around being able to do certain things or learn certain things really quickly they, they're, they're often kind of like these limiting beliefs.
And that wasn't the only time at Heartwood that I learned that. But I think there were a bunch of things from that experience that made me realize, like, okay, if you're motivated enough and you work hard enough, you can, you can learn things in a crazy short amount of time.
I know you said long story short, but I I If we could make long story long just for like a, a, a quick second here. What other kind of like self-talk things are going through your head as you get that request? What are some other kind of like questions that you either asked in the moment or if you had to look back and be like, miles, man, you should have asked this question.
Like, you, you could have saved yourself so much headache when that opportunity presented itself to you. Had you just been aware to blank?
Yeah. Okay. So I think the first one was that the most of the other chefs who were like on the line at hardwood were what I would call, like classically trained. You know, they went to like cooking school in the United States and they had done like the four year program and like, I'm definitely not classically trained.
So there was, there's a lot of just. Stuff from the traditional French technique cannon that I was like totally unaware of. And I was, I was very like, ashamed of that, you know, and I wanted to hide it. And so I thought that everyone else knew so much more than I did. And so I was like afraid to ask a lot of questions because I thought they were gonna be really stupid questions.
And I didn't want to, I didn't want people to be aware of my lack of knowledge. So basically what I ended up doing is like stumbling through a bunch of stuff that I had to do the hard way or learn the hard way or like figure out on my own when I actually could have asked. And I think in, maybe in some of those situations I was appropriate.
But definitely in a lot of situations I, I, I honestly could have just asked one of my coworkers and they would've happily helped me out. And even when I look back now with, with what I do know, like not all of those were stupid questions. Some of them were just, you know, perfectly fine questions that if I had been willing to ask, I think would've made my life a lot easier.
Do you have anything else on that topic? Cuz I get those questions too, man. I'll, I'll get a DM from somebody and they'll be like, Hey Justin, I just took this job and I'm going to stay for three years in this with, you know, like these, these arbitrary, I call it 10 year guilt. So you have this idea in your head of, you know, You're gonna stay at a place for two years, or you're gonna, you're gonna spend five years here and become a sous chef.
And I think in a lot of respects that that's beneficial because I, I've written about this in previous pieces where it's like, it's a very clear signaling mechanism to other people that are gonna hire you in the future of, like, if you spent a year here, that means that you didn't have enough substance abuse problems that put you into the, into jail.
Do you know what I mean? You, you, you weren't so much of a scumbag that you lost the restaurant so much money that the, the chef ultimately ended up firing. You didn't get in a fight with someone in the locker room that made this person. Do you know what I mean? Like, file a HR soon. So like there is a lot of benefit to tenure.
I just think to your point, it is often so arbitrary. And so I guess, do you have any other, like decision making frameworks around, kind of like how you navigated those early days in your career that might be helpful for, for people?
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have any like, specific frameworks I can point to. I think also I probably had a little bit of a different set of goals than a lot of like other chefs who might be listening to this podcast. I kind of, you know, when I, so I, I went to college and then after college I went to cooking school in Mexico City.
And like I said, it was a six month program that was kind of focused on learning about regional Mexican cuisine. And the original plan was just to go do that and then move back and get a job. And I just was having such a good time and learning so much that I really wanted to go actually cook somewhere professionally.
I had cooked in restaurants for like summer jobs in high school and stuff, but they were never, they, they weren't very serious places. So, you know, I wanted to get like some experience in a fine dining establishment that was respected and all that. But I had always kind of framed it in my mind as.
This sort of like learning experience and it wasn't in my mind as something that I was going to do forever. So I think for me, in some ways that made it easier because the, like the, you know, when I had those first few weeks there and I was working 14 hour days and it was so hot and like the physical labor and it was just very overwhelming.
It was the hardest I worked in my life at that point. I think if in my mind I had thought I'm gonna be doing this forever, it would've made it a lot harder. Whereas in those early days, I was just kind of like, all right, I'm just gonna take this day by day and try and get through it and try and absorb as much as I can.
The last station in a restaurant that I ever worked at as like a chef de Paree was, I, I think it mirrors a lot of what you experienced at Heartwood. So I had a four burner induction top, which was like probably way techier than what you guys had in the jungle. But I also had a open fire grill set up next to me and then to the left of that burner setup was like a rationale oven.
And so that was like the roast fish protein
doing wood, fire or
[00:10:07] Talking Open Fire Cooking
Yeah. No, it was charcoal and we would do, we would do a combination of, of wood at certain points if we wanted additional smoke or stuff like that. But I guess. I wanted to touch on the topic of intuitive cooking, which I've heard you mention and skills that you've developed at, at heartwood, whether it's to just potentially exemplify the benefits of it towards the person who's like, well, you know, the only experience I have is on like a flat top, or I, I'm, I've only worked gas on gas stoves.
And, and I, I give that context so that you know that you can kind of like nerd out on some of these nitty gritty with me, and then, you know, we can potentially expand on it for the audience if we get a little bit too technical.
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that would, like, I'm so grateful that I had my first professional, my first high level professional cooking experience at Heartwood because of that. Like, I think that learning to cook over open fire is like the, it's just like a crash course in cooking off of your gut and off of your instinct, which I think that that's a great way to cook even if you are using, you know, these like very precise tools.
And the reason for that is like, you know, like I said, we didn't have a, a stove, we just had a woodfire grill. So we were doing everything on that. We were grilling, but we were also like frying, we were boiling water. Like whatever we had to do that would've been, that would be done on a stove top in a regular restaurant.
We did on a grill. And then we had a wood fired oven and none of these things had temperature dials even for the oven. We didn't have one of those like laser guns or anything. What I think that allowed me to do was learn to. Not read like measurements, but like rely on my senses for how I was cooking with things.
And I think that's ultimately a much better way to do it because you know that that means you're gonna be cook, be able to cook in any environment, you know, without screwing it up. So it's like with the Woodfired oven, you know, you have to really like, feel there and you have to learn that this oven distributes heat in a certain way.
And maybe if you put something on one side of the oven, it's gonna be slightly cooler than if you put it on the other side of the oven. But it's also gonna depend on like how hot the fire is. And then same with, you know, with learning to, to cook over the wood grill, it's like you learn not only how to like build and like lower the heat using fire, but you also learn about the fact that like, you know, say you're boiling water, you can have that pop directly over a flame, but you'd never want to cook a steak over a flame.
Things like that. And so, yeah, I just think it was like, I, I think there were so many skills that I, that I took away from that, that I still use. I mean, I still love to cook over wood fire when I can, but like at home I have a, I have a gas stove, but those, those same instincts still kick in.
You've gone on this ramp before and I, I, I love the way that you frame this of talking about the difference between, like, I call it I, I might get actually some flack from this. I call it like twel food, where it's like, it's, it's fluid gels and perfectly, you know, molded twi and sovi proteins that, that get assembled beautifully.
You know, like they, they plate really well. But you've talked about the idea of like imperfection in that comes from, from open fire cooking. Can you go on that rant a little bit just to set the stage? Cause I have a follow up question there.
Yeah, for sure. And this is like one of my favorite things to talk about because I, I hold this belief very deeply, but it's not something that's like, it's not based on some kind of like scientific fact or whatever. It's just a, it's an intuitive feeling, but I basically think that there is a lot of beauty in imperfection and there's a certain like soulfulness that comes from cooking in a way that embraces imper.
Perfect. And I think that there was this wave in cooking probably from before you and I even started our career, but maybe it's like the Abu kind of thing, where people took this very scientific approach to cooking. And everything was focused on precision. And then you had things like sovi that it, it's really all about like measuring everything and getting it at this like perfect moment in a way that, that you can dial in.
And the the kind of like qui that I had about it was that like, you know, I think like someone who represents that is like the modernist cuisine guys, right? And I'm sure that those guys are very good chefs and like produce really tasty food, but like, I'd rather eat something that was cooked by Francis Malman or Chris Bianco or someone like that.
And it's almost like, I can't exactly articulate why, but you kind of know when you see it. There's this like, Element that that, that you can't necessarily like put your finger on, but I call like soulfulness to their cuisine. And for me, like open fire, wood fire, it represents a lot of that because you, you, you just can't have precision in that environment, you know?
And you have to embrace those imperfections, but those imperfections are what give that food a lot of its character. And to me that's the most interesting and tastiest stuff that you can eat.
Well, it, it's, it's the, what I'm calling tool food at this point. We'll see if that sticks. I, I haven't quite decided if that's what I'm gonna call it, but it's so tailored for posting online. Right.
is. Yeah.
that you can only experience with those two senses of, like, you can hear it like, you make a, a crisp, a chicken skin chip, super crispy, and you can do it on the, you know, you know, you do, you do the crunch thing.
the top of it. Yeah.
And you could see it, you know, like, and, and, and it's, it's with that, that sight and that sound, it's like, it's so easy to kind of be able to experience there. But to your point, the, the huge benefits that come if you have an assador e ChAARI meal, do you know what I mean? Come from these other senses that you just can't, you know, get through the, through the phone screen.
Yeah, and I think it also is a little bit of, it ties into this conversation of like, cooking is art versus cooking is science. And like obviously it's both. I definitely approach it as as more of an art, and I just feel that when people lean too far into the cooking of science approach, they lose some of that soulfulness that makes food so interesting.
The next point on that topic, that, which was my follow up question I promised is I don't know. There's this author and he's an entrepreneur named Peter Teal, and he talks about this idea called the Great Stagnation, and he's talking about technology. But I have this thing that I've been trying to wrestle with, which is like, is open fire cooking?
The peak of cooking? Like have we in our current evolution as humans and all the technology that we've managed to create, it's funny to me that we've gone backwards and found the fire again, whatever, whatever, but it's kind of like, When I think about, I have a popup coming up in, in two weeks here, and, and I'm kind of theming it around like spring ingredients combined with open fire stuff.
Because like when I think about like, what do I just get jazzed about cooking it is doing some sort of open fire thing because the technical pros that you have to have to execute it well. The, the again, tactile nature of just like being in it and cooking in that way is just like, I, I haven't found anything that's matched it regardless of the number of, you know, kind of like recipes that become available or tools that I could purchase.
And so I guess my question to you is like, is that, would you say that that's true or, or is that maybe the wrong question where it's like, is open fire the peak of cooking?
Wow. There's a lot to unpack there. I love that. I love that we're talking Peter Teal on a cooking podcast too. This is like, this just touches a lot of the different areas of interest that I have. Cause I'm very familiar with that theory. And I think my, my, my overall answer would be yes, I do think it's the peak of cooking.
Like I, I haven't found anything. I think something that it makes me think of is that with, I think a lot of the reason for the popularity of certain things, like so is a great example, is and actually, you know what else falls in this category is like um, Traeger, air Fryer, a lot of these appeal to a certain type of home cook that wants to be able to just like plug something in, get a notification on their phone when it's ready, and not have to think about that.
And like, I'm not against that per se, you know, if you're busy and you have a full-time job and you have kids and like you're just trying to put food on the table and you're gonna cook food at home, like, that's awesome. And I think any tool that can help you do that in a way that's like easier is, is something that I'm, I'm in support of.
I don't think it makes as much sense for professional chefs though, because like you and I are saying, I think there's, there's a much better way to achieve those outcomes. And you know, as a chef you are. Hopefully not just going for convenience and, and you know, speed of execution and all that, and you have that room to be able to say like, what is the highest expression of this type of cooking?
And for me that's like almost always wood fire.
Yeah, man, I, I just, I guess where my question comes and what I struggle with when I get to this place of thinking about it in this way is like, should I then therefore attempt to increase my proficiency in open fire cooking? Because it's like, okay, there is a summit. And I experience this sometimes when I go to places where they're like, oh, we have a hearth.
And it's like, oh, well you have like a couple of components that you just like let dry out over the fire when you lit it earlier in today. Or you just, like you, you, you lit some charcoal and you put it in some cream and like that's how you made your ice cream. Do you know what I mean? Like you're not actually genuinely like preparing all of your proteins in this way where you have someone who is just a savage on the har station in the way that like, that's what made Cezanne Cezanne.
That's what makes E Jabari at Jabari is like when you go there and experience these things. And so it's like, is there some sort of kind of like, I'm almost thinking you're the first person I've jammed on this with, but like maybe there's some sort of like proficiency, I don't know how we would like track your skill level on open fire, but like, is there a way where we could potentially mark that in a way where it's like, oh, well this
you're a blue belt, you're, you're, you know, whatever. You're a
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I, I play tennis and there's like a ranking with numbers, so you just go, you can be a 2.0, a 2.5, a 3.5, a four or a five, whatever uh, level tennis player. It's like, is there a world where we might have some sort of, like, you, you can get a bunch of, you know, like food together and if you can prepare it with these sorts of quality standards, it's like, oh, well you get this level of proficiency.
Or is it like, okay, well this is the arbitrarily defined peak. There could be something more. And so instead of spending your time like going into this arena and just trying to optimize this to the nines, it's like maybe you should spend your time researching other methods of cooking or just like ways of, I don't know, man, but
No, I, I mean, it's, it's an interesting thing to think about because I don't necessarily have like a perfect answer here, but I think that I, I am definitely wary of trying to like, quantify something that feels so inherently unquantifiable. And I, I think one of the things that I like about open fire cooking is that it's something that can only be like, there's no real shortcut to learning it.
You know, it's like a skill that you have to master and it takes time to do. And I think in the age of like tech and AI and social media, there's so many people who just want to like, find these shortcuts to, to be an old, to do different things. And a lot of the things that I think people find the most meaning in now are the things where those shortcuts don't exist.
And open fire is definitely one of them. I mean, it's like learning to speak a second language. You know, you have to put in the reps and you have to learn to basically like dance with this living, breathing thing that can change on a whim. And there's so many different factors that go into it. And it requires the use of like every single one of your senses and to develop those over time and to like know what things to, to look for and all that.
So I think that, Yeah, I, I think that there's like, that, that's what makes it so special. So I, I don't feel like there's any way that you could, like, properly measure how, how good that is. But, so this is a little bit of a, a departure, but one thing that it just makes me think of is like so Chef Jordan Kahn, are you familiar with this guy?
yep. Vespertine Meteora for the, for the listener. He's a chef who was at Alinea for a while. He was part of that, you know, just like og John Shields, Greg Baxtrum, Curtis Duffy crew. And then he moved to LA Open Vespertine. He had a, a place called Red Medicine before that and now he has a place called Meteora.
And there's another breakfast spot called Destroyer in LA if anybody wants to do some research on Jordan.
Yeah. So, okay. So I haven't eaten at Sine, but I've eaten at Destroyer in Meteora, but. So Media Ora was like my favorite meal I had last year. It was awesome. And what I think is really cool about Jordan Kahn is that like Vespertine is this like super conceptual. The idea is that like you're eating a meal on another planet in the future, and it definitely falls into that category of like molecular astronomy.
The food is crazy looking. There's a ton of manipulation that happens. And it's definitely like, you know, in the same lineage as a Linea or WD 50 or places like that, right? And what he did with Meteora was he went in the, like completely opposite direction, where the kind of like idea behind Meteora is that you're eating a meal that was prepared like a thousand years ago.
So it's all, there's a heavy emphasis on like open fire and smoke and any kind of like primitive cooking technique. There's a lot of emphasis on like, Using either like wild varietals of plants or heirloom varietals of plants. And I just think it's like, it's very interesting because one, it's, it's just like really, it's really, really, really creative and really well executed, but it's also cool, cool to see a chef that spent so much of his time in that world of like, you know, the sort of like sciencey, very mani, like heavily manipulated food.
Go back to this and see like, oh, actually there's a ton of value to be had in this, like, completely opposite approach to cooking.
I also, I mean, not to get too existential, but the place where my head goes sometimes in thinking about skill proficiency in a person who cooks is, you know, we can call that a chef.
[00:23:12] AI and the Future of Cooking
Just like to the nines is important because as I don't know if you've spent any time thinking about automation
Mm-hmm.
But it's one of those funny things where it's like, okay, well we have these ingredients that come in, either pre-prepped or they're fairly straightforward to prep.
We have these pieces of equipment that have dials on it that can be dialed in, and we have, you know, just kind of like these fairly repetitive motions that people can go through in a consistent manner to get the same product every single time. It's like that is a automators. Like they're salivating looking at that and they're just like, oh my God, I can build a robot that can do this.
But when I look at open fire, when I look at like just genuine hospitality experiences, I'm trying to think about like what are the human things? What are the things that benefit from human involvement? That's the thing that I just kind of like constantly come back to and open fire cooking is certainly one of them, and so obviously it's gotta be something that, that like if you ha don't have experience in it, it's kind of like that is a potential moat you can build around yourself in your career.
Have you thought about that at all?
I have. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, so I, because I don't cook professionally full-time, I'm you know, I'm a little bit more like you, like I'll do popups and stuff here and there, but I'm, I'm more content focused at this point. So I haven't necessarily thought about it for me because I don't think there's other things I've thought about with regards to my career and how automation and AI might influence those.
But I have thought about it generally, and I think that like, you know, one thesis that I have is that maybe it's just gonna widen the gap between what we would call, like fine dining and what we would call like fast casual. You know, it's like, it seems to me like McDonald's sweet green Cava, like those types of places could, you could see a future in which they're just fully automated without really like losing almost anything about the existing experience.
Right. And so maybe that means that like the, the, the experiences that people are willing to pay more for Are the ones that like, have that strongly human element that just can't be automated away. So like, you know, that a Meteora falls in that line. You know, anything like Francis Malman would do, falls into that.
But even like, you know, somewhere like Noma or something, somewhere that's doing like, you know, a new menu every season and there's like a lot of creativity and you know, nuance behind what they're doing those places, I think, you know, that's not gonna get automated away.
I tend to agree. I have this theory that it's just like the, the middle will get segmented. So like the people who are at your bistros and, and, and they just really enjoy being on the line. They're gonna upskill so that they can be part of those concepts that are doing the things that are able to charge more because it's a supply and demand thing that's gonna kick in.
And then, like you said, the bottom is going to just be odd that, that, that's where I tend to, to, to fall.
Yeah. And not to not to fanboy on Jordan Conn too much, but like, one thing that I do like that he's doing is I don't know if he said this himself or someone who is writing about it said it, but basically the idea is like he thinks that, you know, going out to eat should be like going to like the theater, like going to Broadway.
You know, it should be an experience that you're like buying a ticket for in advance cuz it's this very interesting thing and you're talking about it afterwards with your friends. And like, I went to Meteor with a buddy of mine who's also really into food and like we were talking about it for like a couple days, you know, just cause it was super, super interesting and I haven't been to Vespertine, but from what I understand about that experience, it's the same way.
And so I think that you'll probably see more of those types of things where it's like, not just fine dining, but fine dining that is wrapped in some kind of like experience. And it'll be more akin to something like a theater or going to an art show or, or, or whatever it may be. And I actually think that that makes a lot of sense for the industry.
Like I know that the Alinea guys who started talk, they did that because they were saying like, Alinea is this like very special meal, and people would like make a reservation and not show up. And he is like, you know, you're not gonna do that if you're going to a Broadway play. Like, you're gonna pay in advance and if you have to sell your ticket to someone else, maybe you do that.
But like the, the model was really broken for restaurants and the sort of like way that people were purchasing and scheduling that was out of line with the actual value that was being created there. So I think we're gonna see more movement in that direction
[00:27:17] Myles talks about cooking Abroad
I am gonna switch gears just really quickly, back to, back to your heart, would experience, because I have a bunch of people who DM me or send me an email and, and, and ask about moving abroad. And this question is often you grew up in Cleveland, Ohio is.
Yep.
grew up in, in a little tiny town in Wisconsin and it was this funny thing where I was like, I knew I didn't know where I wanted to go, but I knew I wanted to get the hell outta Wisconsin.
And I think that the reason that it becomes such a proliferated question is obviously because of the romantic, you know, I, I wanna go cook in France, I want to go cook in Japan, kind of thing. But it's this funny thing of like, if I break the seal of I'm going to leave my hometown, the world obviously just opens up.
And so I guess I'm curious for you if you have any tips on someone who is interested in, in moving abroad. And, you know, you can, you can talk about it from a, a wide variety of industries, or you can keep it food focused if you want.
yeah. I mean, I, I think like if you are young and you have the means, or even if you're not young and you just don't have, you know, the, the, like a, a family or a mortgage or you know, a dog or whatever might keep you there like 100%. I can't recommend it enough. I mean, that was that experie. Changed my life and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
I think that it's such a powerful way to just sort of like expand your, your worldview generally. I think there's a, a huge arbitrage that's available to you. Like if you're, you know, if you're young and you're gonna go cook, like you could get a job at a cool restaurant in New York City and you're gonna be really, really struggling financially.
Or you could, you know, go move abroad somewhere where the cost of living is like way, way, way lower. And get a bunch of experience and have a lot more just abundance in your life. So I think that's definitely something to consider. But I also think that like I, I, I think that if you're, if you're curious about other cuisines like that, you just can't, you know, there's no way that you can cook those cuisines well without having like, a lot of experience both like eating and, and cooking them.
And so like for me it was, that was what I wanted to do with, with Mexico. I was always fascinated by that cuisine and, and wanted to learn more about it. And like, you know, I spent two years there like living, I've spent a lot more time there, probably total. But yeah, that, that like hugely influenced the way that I cook now.
And I think that, like, I, I, I personally sometimes think that like classic classical French training is a little bit overrated. And I say that because like, I didn't do it and I cooked with a bunch of people that did, and I, it wasn't as important as I like initially thought it would be. I, that don't get me wrong, there's a lot of value there.
But I think that there's also that, like the fact that we have classical French training, or sorry, classical you. Training and like French cuisine are, are, have such a strong overlap misses the fact that there's like these really, really interesting fundamental techniques and learnings that happen from all these other cuisines.
You know, like I wasn't classically trained, but I learned all sorts of stuff that are these like Mexican techniques that they don't teach in French training school. And so I think if you pick somewhere that has a cuisine that you think is really cool, there's a lot that you can learn that's not gonna be the same stuff that you would learn if you went to say, culinary Institute of America or, or Johnson Wales or something like that.
And I think there's a lot of value there.
Is there uh, particular, if you're open to sharing it, a reason why you move back to the US?
Yeah, so I mean I kind of, like I said, like I initially thought I was gonna move back after cooking school but I decided to, to stay and I wanted to go cook professionally. And so basically I said I'm gonna give myself a year to do that. So I did that and then Heartwood closes every season.
For like kinda like the rainy season in Tulum. So when it closed, I actually went to Oaxaca and ITOd at a couple places for like three months. And then I, and then I moved home. And the, the reason was just sort of like, I had kind of boxed it in my mind initially. And yeah, that's
Okay. you correct me if I'm wrong on this stat, but you studied economics, right?
Correct.
Why economic?
I thought it was a good major. I don't know.
[00:31:20] Crypto for Chefs?
That, that's, that's a bit of a tee up here. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell a quick story both for you and for the listener. And this is related to crypto and chefs. so to me, The combination is, is a bit of a match made in heaven because chefs becoming more familiar with tech, just in general is a huge win.
And the meme on Discord to swing it to the crypto communities is like, touch grass like that, that's like a big thing. And so like to me, cooking is like one of the most InTouch activities that you can do. I wrote a piece last year about how, how chefs can take advantage of the big n ft and web three boom that happened because I have friends here in Seattle, they're founders of n ft projects.
They blew up like crazy. Steve Aoki, like put them on blast. And now they're like, I have this group of 10,000 people and we need something to do. Like, we need to, we, we, we need something. And or, or the thing that that happened is like, oh, well we promised in our list of perks that we were gonna do dinners.
And now we're like, oh shit, we have people to do these dinners with. And like, we have no idea how to do dinners. And so for chefs, we were like perfectly position. In a way that I saw us not being well positioned in Web two because web two was like, oh, well you need to learn how to use a camera. You need to learn how to set up a website.
You need to learn how to code, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whereas with web three, it's like you, US Chefs can participate in crypto without necessarily like being the ones who are launching the project or deciding what the PFPs are or whatever. Did you see the same thing when, when that was happening? Or I, I guess can you talk a little bit about your involvement with crypto maybe?
Yeah, I mean, I, my involvement with crypto is definitely more on the, like Bitcoin side. I, I mean, I, I, I've, I, I worked, I actually worked for a crypto hedge fund for several years, so I've, like, I've touched it all. But I think these days I'm, I'm much more just kind of like Bitcoin focused for reasons that don't so much overlap with the, the king stuff that I do.
So I think I agree with you generally. I, I don't know if I've seen anything yet that has been like super interesting to me on the side of like chef's leveraging that technology. But again, I'm not paying that close attention, so maybe I'm missing it. The only thing that I saw was like, Tom Collicchio
Yeah. And his, it was like a pizza thing that he did,
Yeah. And I, I think that like, with that, it felt almost a little out of touch.
totally. To be clear, I'm not saying chefs launching crypto projects is the, is the thing. It is just this funny thing of if anybody's ever done a pop-up before, they know this issue or this obstacle that you run into, which is like, how am I gonna get people to come?
Yep.
And with all of these web three communities, it's kind of like you have the opposite problem.
It's like, well, we have a bunch of people here. And we need to do something with them. We want it to be food. Food is like very high on our list. And to me it's like chefs are so perfectly, and, and, and the other thing that's so interesting is you often have that problem come through with things like event planners or non-profits where they're like, we have this big gala that we have to do and we have a bunch of people coming.
Oh, and by the way, we have a shoestring budget. Can you please help? Whereas with a lot of these other projects, they're just like, Hey, we had like 2.3 million in like pre-sales that came through. We need something to do and so can you please help us? Do you know what I mean? So to me, that's like the perfect mix for chefs to come in and, and potentially benefit in a way that helps build their brand.
It helps get them new an audience, it helps them, you know, launch their project, like whatever it happens to be. That's more the angle I was talking
and on on that, I 100% agree cuz I think that I would say chefs like, don't do this stuff. Or someone is saying like, Hey you know, we, we don't have a budget, we can't pay you. But um, there's gonna be a bunch of like really cool people there who you should probably meet. Like I've, I've had that more times than I can count and like never has it been that productive for me.
I think like if you're working as a chef, you should like get paid what you're worth cuz that's really, really hard work that involves like a ton of hours of like prep and showing up and, and, and execution and all this different stuff. And so, What you're kind of saying is like, there are opportunities now, whether it's web three or just general, you know, if you can, can be a little bit more tech savvy where you can like find those opportunities that are gonna pay you actually what you're worth versus requiring you to do this like shoestring budget type of thing.
And I think like absolutely yes. Seek those out. And that's why I think that it's like good for chefs to like, like there's this like tech people who, they're like, yo, go touch grass. And then there's these chefs who are like, so rooted in the physical world. I think it'll be good for a lot of them to have some foot in the, in the technosphere Twitter, whatever, because I, I do think there are opportunities like that.
Speaking of audience, you really focus on cooking at home now. And, and I think that if I'm being honest, like I'm a little bit jealous. Like, like I, I think it's such a, it's, it's a to larger total addressable market. I think that the skillset that you bring in, the way that you talk about food on, on, like the, the Twitter threads that you put out is so well done in a way that it appeals to that person who is interested in going deeper in, into those waters.
[00:36:09] Myles talks about his new homecooking approach
So I guess, can you talk a little bit about why you chose to go down this route and maybe some of the decision making whether it's a mental model or, or, or some readings that you did that, that, that led you to, to positioning yourself in the way that you've done so far.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that I, so I grew up in a family where my mom, my mom was actually a trained chef. So, but she cooked for us at home all the time. And like home cooking was just a really big part of my, like family life, our social life, all that. And so what was kind of funny was that when I started cooking professionally, I never cooked at home.
Like I had one day off a week and I didn't want to cook.
right.
I didn't even have like a proper kitchen in my apartment in Mexico. And. You know, there, there were certain things I loved about cooking professionally. Cause it was like all day, every day I got to be working with my hands and working with food and all of that.
And that was beautiful. But I did miss that. Some of those elements of, of home cooking that I have really, you know, always loved. And so when I, when I came back from Mexico, I, I, I started working for a food company called maa. And at that point I was like working, you know, a regular job and started just cooking at home a ton more.
And for me it just, like all of the things I love about cooking, find their highest expression in home cooking. And that's just a personal thing, but it's like I cook to, you know, eat healthier. I cook cuz I like to save money. I cook cause I like to get friends and family together. I like to cook for other people.
I like to kind of like be creative but allow it to just, you know, be my own creativity that dictates that rather than having to execute on the, the vision of, of someone else. And I think. It ties into kind of what you were saying earlier with the like, touch grass thing, which is that I think that, you know, the, the vast majority of people today have some kind of like digital fatigue, probably professional chefs less so than others for obvious reasons, and tech workers more so than others for obvious reasons.
But I think that home cooking, and this is like maybe the, maybe the overarching thesis of everything that I do is that I think that home cooking provides this like, antidote to the modern world that we live in, in a really, really powerful way. And that has a, there's a bunch of reasons why, but like the, the main reason is that we spend a lot of our time in this digital world in front of screens.
And cooking is a way to get rooted back into the physical world. You know, you have to use all of your senses to do it. You have to be present. It kind of connects you to nature because you're, you're working with these like natural products and all that. But I think one of the other things that a lot of people are feeling is just like, Lack of community in the modern world.
And, you know, the like online interactions just aren't the same as these like in-person interactions. And food is not only like the oldest catalyst for this, but probably the best catalyst for like, getting people together. And so I love when um, you know, I've had friends who have like helped learn about home cooking and, you know, I've had friends who go from like, not feeling like they could, you know, make scrambled eggs to then like hosting barbecues for five of their friends.
And to me that's like, that's the, the journey. Like you've, you've made it to the top at that point. Cuz I think that's ultimately what it's all about. So for me it's, it's like, you know, I, I love talking to people like you because there's still a part of me that is like such a nerd about food and jamming out about like, chefs and cooking techniques and stuff that's on the cutting edge and all of that.
So like, I, I love that, but I also You know, it's, it's very satisfying for me to like work with people who, you know, don't come from that background, but who can bring home cooking into their life and get some of these benefits from it.
Well listen man, we just met, but I, I want you to gas, gas up your projects a little bit so it's okay. I guess can you, can you talk a little bit about how that actually manifests in, in the different platforms that you choose to publish on and then ultimately kind of like how you interact with people?
[00:39:57] Different ways platforns impact fan engagement
Cuz I think it's also super unique compared to, I think what we often saw in the kind of like late knots with like food blogs
Yeah,
of like the thing that people drove forward.
Yeah. And like, this has been a, like, there was no master plan going into this. It's definitely been a journey of like, discovery. And I started in terms of like online content, I was doing a lot of stuff on TikTok. And like that was fun, but it was also like a lot of work. The rewards were very like variable.
And I definitely like burned out on it. I had been involved, I, I'd been on Twitter for my, like, tech work for several years. And I was kind of interested in the fact that like, Twitter was completely saturated with all these verticals, like tech and productivity and business and money and all these things.
But there were these like glaring holes, cooking being one of them. Like there was, there's, to this day there's very few people doing cooking content on Twitter. So I saw that as an opportunity, one to just like stand out more because it wasn't as saturated. Instagram, TikTok, they're completely saturated with cooking.
It's very hard to, to stand out. It's very hard to build the following. The other thing was that in my experience with Twitter, it, it was a more social, social network. So with TikTok it's like, I might be mutual friends with someone, but very rarely are you. Do you feel like you're having a conversation with them and even like.
People aren't really DMing each other on TikTok in, in the same way. I've never been super big on Instagram, so I, I don't really know what the deal is there, but like with Twitter, it felt like I was actually building relationships with people. And it's very common to like DM with people or even, you know, you meet someone, you're like, Hey, let's hop on a phone call.
Like we, you know and I've had, I've had a ton of that. And then the other thing was that I noticed that people from Twitter were like way more likely to kind of look into my other work beyond what was happening on that platform. So on TikTok, I would post a link to my newsletter and no one would jump through to it.
Whereas like on Twitter, whether it's like a newsletter or a product or some other thing I'm doing, like, it just, they, people are much more willing to engage. And I don't know exactly why that is. I've thought about it a lot, but there's like something to be said for these different platforms and like, I can tell you absolutely that my follower count on TikTok was like, Maybe like five times what it is on, on Twitter.
And the value that I get out of the Twitter following that's much smaller is so, so, so much higher. So once I kind of discovered that and started getting like feedback that that was actually working, I decided to focus almost entirely as on Twitter as kind of my main platform along with my newsletter.
Can you talk a little bit too about, I, I, I, you know, like, again, we just met, but I, I, I would credit a large percentage of the reason why that this is working so well is because you live in Austin, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so from a, you know, kind of like user behavior perspective, it's not like you have to teach people to go to your website or, or there was this company, oh my God, I can't remember the name of it, but it was like, oh, well we're gonna, we're gonna launch these like food focused communities in, in an app.
Like it's a
Oh, it was called
It was from some of the resi people.
yeah, I wanna say Miso, but it wasn't that, but it was like, it was like these group chats, right?
Something like that. It was like very Patreon meets WhatsApp group meets, you know, something to that effect.
I tried it out and it didn't, it didn't stick for
sure, sure. And I, I, I, I would say that like, if you're trying to get people in Austin to get more interested in food, it's like meet them where they're at. You know what I mean? Like, it, it, it's, it's the same with.
My, my, my family's from Northern India, and so it's like if I was to launch a brand there, I would go on WhatsApp. Do you know what I mean? Like, there, there's a very different, you know what I mean, like user behavior just kind of, and I think chefs can often overthink that, where it's like, oh, well the last generation before me did the food blog thing, or built a Facebook page or whatever.
And you're just like, I, I, I'm, I'm trying to call that out for the audience here of, you know, listen to what's working and just continue to pour gasoline on that.
yeah. And like, I, I mean, I've thought about this with regards to Twitter. Like something I found out recently was that like Twitter I think has like 300 million users versus like TikTok and Facebook, which have billions. And so Twitter's actually a much smaller network. And I think it also probably skews like the, like the, the demographics are, are pretty unique probably for Twitter.
And so there's probably benefits and downsides to that. But definitely I think just the fact that there's very few other people doing this type of content on there makes a big difference.
If you wouldn't mind, I'd be curious, like creator to creator, how are you thinking about brand relationships, monetization, creating your own products, having an own audience? You mentioned you have a newsletter versus platform audience. Like, there's all these things to think about. So I guess, are there like pillars of, you know, things that you just kind of like to keep in mind that you're just kind of driving forward that you use as like bumpers when you're making decisions?
Or I
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that owned audience is super, super, super important and I've known that for a long time. So, but it's almost like to build an owned audience, you have to leverage some of their platform to get the distribution. But what's interesting is like, My initial thought was, okay, TikTok for the distribution newsletter for the owned audience, but no one converted.
Uhhuh.
And so I think these are the things you have to think about. Whereas like with Twitter, like the conversions are like crazy, crazy high. And so I think for me, I think a lot about yeah, having both and trying to build both. And like with Twitter I was able to do that with other platforms. I wasn't. And so, you know, like I'm gonna keep pushing on Twitter cuz it seems to be working right now.
But I think probably the most valuable asset I own is my email list for sure. As far as like monetization goes, this is like an ever-changing thing and like I'm still absolutely trying to figure it out. I think that, so I have done some work with brands like what, you know, on when I was doing TikTok, I, I would have a fair amount of brands reach out and that's tough because.
You know, you don't always wanna work with all the brands that reach out to you, you know? And so like I turned down like a really, really lucrative deal with a brand that it was very hard to say no to, but I don't use this brand. Like I don't eat this brand's food. I don't like, it's, it's not in line with my values.
And I kind of knew that if I did do that deal, it would just like look very odd because I'm here like talking about shopping at farmer's markets and eating healthy food. And then you see this, you know, I'm not gonna name them, but this brand pop up that you can imagine the type of brand that it is.
The lesson's important. You know, like making sure that you're, you're not feeling like you're wearing, you know, a a, a set of clothes that aren't yours is, is really, really valuable.
Yeah, for sure. And I think that the other thing about the brand deals is that they're just very inconsistent. Like it would, you know, I think that. Maybe if you have like management or you're at a certain level where you know that, that you just have the ability to do that. But like for me, it seemed like it'll be really hard to like earn a consistent living just doing that.
And there will be a lot of uncertainty in your future and it would be really tough. So I didn't really like that model. I'm not against it, but I've found for me that the model that I like a lot better, even though I'm not making nearly as much money off of this as I could with just direct brand deals as affiliates.
So basically, I went to every, like, major brand like cookware, olive oil, tall, you know, pantry stuff, kitchen stuff, all that stuff. And the brands that I love, I went to them and they all have affiliate programs, you know, so I was basically able to get affiliates for, for all the brands that I, that I actually use.
Um, Then I'm part of like Amazon's affiliate program and all of that. And so, you know, whenever I recommend a product, whether it's in my newsletter or on Twitter or whatever, I link to the affiliate link. And, you know, that generates some, some good revenue. It's not like, you know, it's, it's side hustle money for sure.
But it's growing and I, I think that could be like something substantial moving forward. But I definitely think for me, the longer term goal is to find, like, to experiment with different models that I think are better than just the, the simple like brand deals. And I don't know exactly what those are, but I'm kind of like trying different things.
So, Like I want to do some like live online classes, self tickets to that. I just started doing this thing called culinary coaching where I'm kind of like working one-on-one with people.
on that. Yeah, talk on that. Cuz I saw you post that. That was actually one of the reasons that like prompted me to reach out to you on Twitter. Cuz I, it's funny cuz I do coaching too, but it's like with line cooks, with sous chefs, with business owners because it's like, I just genuinely think that. The stat is something, something to the effect of like, only if you look at a restaurant, only 35% of the people in that restaurant have any sort of like structured degree style training.
And so from, for the most part, everybody's just kind of like figuring it out as they go. And what really sucked for me being in restaurants sometimes is like, it's not that I feel like felt like information was being gate kept, but I felt like it was like so hard fought. And so I was like, well, I learned a lot of this stuff.
And it was like, if I made this available, like this could be another way that I can monetize without, with, with being able to say no to some of these brand deals that were presenting themselves that I wasn't excited about. So go ahead, talk about
Well, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, for, I mean, it's a, it's a similar thing where it's like, just for me, apply it to home cooks. I think that, you know, you can look across a lot of different industries where people want to develop a skill and, you know, you can call 'em coaches, you can call them consultants, whatever you want, but there's like people who individuals can work with who can help them develop those skills.
You see it a lot in the fitness world. You see it a lot in the world of like nutrition. You see it a lot of in like professional consulting in various capacities. But the way I saw it is I was like, cooking is a really useful skill that people can develop. I know a lot about this. I've worked with people to um, develop these.
I, I can get results. So why not create an offering outta that? And I, you know, when I, when I kind of thought of it and conceptualized, I was like, it's kind of funny that this, this doesn't really exist. You know, like but I think it makes sense. It's like, think about it like a, like a fitness coach, but f but for your home cooking practice.
So I just launched that. I limited it at to three clients to start with. I have those locked in and we're about to start working together and I'm gonna test that and kind of see how it goes and then decide like, you know, if I like it, if they like it, if they're getting value out of it. And if so, maybe figure out a way to like, scale it a little bit and kind of like figure out how many clients can I realistically take on.
And so, yeah, I'm really excited about that. I think it's gonna be, I think where I see that going eventually is maybe creating some kind of like course offering that that helps people develop these skills. And I think that's a way to kind of like scale it because there is obviously a limit on you know, on one-on-one coaching, not just in terms of like, you can always raise your, your prices and, and there's not necessarily a limit on how much you can make doing that, but there's definitely a limit in the scale you can reach doing that.
So that's kind of what I'm thinking about right now, but don't necessarily know exactly what it's gonna look like.
I mean, let's, let's, you know, play the chess game out a little bit further. If, if all of these monetizations were to, I don't know, you can pick a number, maybe it's like five x or 10 x from here. With expanded resource capacity. I've heard you talk on other shows about potentially like opening up a space that's like teaching center, kitchen event space, co-working vibes.
Like is that still something because like I've played around in my head with that too, like I want something to that effect where it's like, it doesn't feel the pressure. I always tell people when I pitch this idea, it's like I don't wanna have to think about what my Wednesday night happy hour menu is.
Like, I want to have other monetization. Do you know what I mean? Like, things built into it where it's like digital monetization is happening, product recommendation is happening, you know, like in-person workshopy kind of things are happening. Content production is, is happening. Like there's, there's something there.
And so I guess where, have you spent more time thinking about that or I just kind of like, where's your head
[00:51:35] Creating a physical space with the content you porduce
I mean, what you just described is exactly how I'm thinking about it. I think that the, I've, I've definitely put that off in my mind until the time is absolutely right because like you were saying, what I don't want to do is do that too early and then be locked into something that forces me to do things that I don't want to do in order to like, pay for it or justify the cost or recoup the cost, whatever.
So like once, I am in a place of enough abundance with everything else that's happening. Like that very much is a goal of mine. And I've thought about it a ton. I've like visualized it. I've conceptualized like what it could look like, all these different things. I love that idea. And it's like a big major bucket list item.
But I'm very wary of doing it too soon because I know that that can come with, with consequences.
The more that I think about it, the more that I just kind of grapple with this idea of like, bootstrapping is so. Sexy sounding, you know what I mean? Like this idea of, oh, well I have built this brand up. Have you seen like what Babish is doing with like building a bread bed and breakfast?
Oh no, I didn't know that. I didn't know he was doing like a brick and
the architecture plans.
It's like, it's called, I don't know, it's something Babish in the name, but he is like, basically did this model, like Josh Weisman talks about like, oh, I'm gonna have a restaurant. It's gonna be the craziest thing you guys have ever seen before, and there's no world where he doesn't produce content out of that restaurant.
And so it's this kind of funny thing where it's like, well, if I can get people like you to like, nod their head about it and you've, it's this like independent discovery thing where it's like, you know, two people, they've never met each other, land on the same idea together. It's like, well, is that something that I should, like, use profits from the business to fund?
Or is it this world where it's like, well we can see so much upside to this that it's like I should just raise money and do it. I mean, like, do, do you ever think about that?
Well, okay. Yeah, I, I think about it in a lot of different ways. I mean, for, like, if you look at both Babish and Weissman, like those are two guys who are like crushing it in the content world.
The cash flow's there like
cash flow is there. Like they could, they could start one of these things, not have it ever be profitable and, and probably be okay.
I think that like when you talk about going out and raising money for something like this, It's it, you know, unless you've proven out like, Hey, I can generate enough money from my content that, that, that is the business model, I think it'll be hard to raise money for. But I, yeah, I mean, when you said like, ba I didn't know the Baptist was doing something like that, and I didn't know that Wiseman
I'll send it to you on, I'll send it to you after we get off
Yeah, please do. Well, what I was gonna ask you is like, can you think of anyone who's like definitely doing that model where it's not like, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this, but like someone who's like actually executing on that.
As in the, my content makes money and my physical space potentially does not.
chef steps maybe.
Chef Steps potentially. They got acquired by Breville and what they kind of figured out was the real asset that is Chef Steps is in the educational kind of tutorial videos for their physical appliance products.
And so if you go on Jewel and you're doing a steak thing, it's like you get walked through this 60 frames per second beautiful thing of like the bag dropping into the water bath or whatever that hap that production happens at Chef Steps. And so they have a bunch of writers, they have just, they have a kind of like a privatized community thing too, where I think it's like 60 bucks a year and you get access to a bunch of different recipes and video tutorials and they do live streams with the chefs there and whatever.
That's the real asset that Chef Steps, you know, manage. And, and they did the whole content thing. I think they grew to like 300,000 YouTube subscribers and, and whatever. The closest one that I can point to is like, certain gyms do this really well, where it's like the owner of the gym happens to have enough content out there where they do this combination of selling products and getting ad sensee revenue where it's like the gym ultimately ends up getting elevated to this point that's like really, really productive.
Yeah.
And so I do think that it has to have some sort of like multifaceted monetization strategy where it's like, not everything hinges on. Is Babbage gonna make a video this week? And if it doesn't, we're really gonna feel like, oh shit, like the business took a massive hit this week or something to that effect.
And so you know, like that's why I started this company. It's called Repertoire. It's about education. Cuz it's like, I have this idea that if I can do a good enough job of like making educational products that that can fund some sort of space. Like that's, you know, just being transparent. That's my plan,
Yeah, absolutely.
And, but yeah, to, to the point of have I seen it not in food, you know what I mean? Like there's a, there's a big, like, I think there were certain, there are stories of like certain times in Chef Steps history where like they were really struggling, you know? And, and this thing with Breville just ultimately helped I, I would say, but yeah, man, I don't know.
Have you, have you seen anything,
No, I I, I'm kind of like racking my brain to think about it, but I can't think of, of anything specifically.
you know, who does a really good job of this that I can imagine it helps his businesses a lot is Cedric Croley, the
Oh, yeah. Well,
he was big way even before social media. Like he had his books and he had all his pastry shops and whatever, but like, man, that guy puts out a video and it's like instant banger,
Totally. I mean, yeah, his videos are great.
yeah,
I didn't know, so I know him just kind of through seeing him on social media, but he has pastry shops,
yeah. In Paris. It's, yeah. Like I remember when I was in culinary school, this was 13 years ago. I'm almost positive, and maybe it wasn't in culinary school, but it was shortly after school. My best friend he had a bunch of Cedric's books and I was just like, oh, this is interesting that like, you like this guy outta Paris cuz you know, my, this friend of mine like adored Paris just like as a food city.
And so he just like got all this stuff from there. But yeah man, I I, I think it's that funny thing where it's like you don't want the content to be the, the thing, the thing, but then at the same time it's like, cuz then you
also don't want the space to be the thing, the thing
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like you're, you're silly if you do one or the other to me.
Cuz if you're all digital, you, you have that touch grass problem if you're all physical, it's just kind of like this thing where you struggle to grow. Your customer acquisition cost is super high. Like there's all these issues that you run into.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think one thing we are seeing more of that, it's not like what you and I are talking about doing, but I think as a trend we'll see, we'll see further is like there's say, you know, some like mom and pop sandwich shop in Cleveland and they're like really big on TikTok, right? And they, you know, the ones who can do content well almost make these like little mini reality shows about their businesses.
And I think that ends up being like their big driver of, of marketing. And I think people are starting to recognize that and see that. And, and the ones that do it well, I think will, will benefit a lot from that because they can build a brand and they can sell merch and they can, you know, they can do other events and, and all that.
And so like we're, we're seeing some of that already, but I think that's gonna continue to grow. And I think people who. Some people are gonna start to realize that that's not just like a fluke. They're gonna be like, oh, that's a strategy.
Yeah, and it's like we want to build this in from the jump versus having it be like an afterthought where it's like, oh, well, you know, now, now that we're launched, now that we have the website down, how do we wanna think about content? It's not gonna be like that.
Yeah.
[00:58:28] Justin and Myles Talk about Health
I want to switch gears and talk about health.
You, you mentioned, you know, one of the, the benefits that you experience from cooking at home is that you feel healthier and it's, you, you get nutrition incorporated a little bit easier because you and I have both lived that chef de partee life. I've heard you talk about your, you know, thoughts on the trend of the quantified self.
I'm wearing an ordering as we record this and, and for context, I, I've never really struggled with like my weight or I've never had like, an addiction to like substances or anything like that. So in a way I don't have that much to like really complain about, but I do care about health because my passion is kind of seeing the number of excited hospitality professionals go up.
And a big reason that people. push back to coming into the hospitality industry is because of the lifestyle. And so you can kind of feel free to approach this from, from any way you want, but what are some health principles that maybe like the working line cook can keep in mind?
Yeah, I mean, I think that there was a long time, and this probably still is the case in certain restaurants where it's like the norm was this like hard charging, partying lifestyle. And it's like, yeah, you work on your feet 14 hours a day, but after your shift you drink a bunch and then you go out, and then you wake and then, you know, you hear, you still hear chefs like tell stories about the glory days and this and that.
And when they, when they did a lot of this, and it's like, you know, e everyone's free to do what they want and if that's the, the lifestyle that you choose, more power to you. But I think that if you want like longevity and you wanna like, feel your best, then you, you just, you just can't do that. It's gonna catch up to you eventually.
I think that, I mean, you probably know better than I do, but like, this is changing a little bit. Is it not?
Yep. A hundred percent. I, I talk about this idea of like, I, I don't have any tattoos. Like I said, I've never struggled with any sort of substance abuse problems. I love like putting together like documents and nerding out about communication and being organized and like, you know, there, there's something to me ba like potentially made fun of there of like, oh, like you're just a golden boy, whatever, whatever.
But like, I genuinely don't think that the pirate life just kind of ever resonated with me. I've never followed true cooks on Instagram kind of thing. Like, it's never been something that spoke to me, man. And so I look at these things of like, oh, well if you're a chef, if you're a line cook, like this is who you are.
And I'm, I just don't, I, I, I no, it, it, it doesn't do it for me. And so part of, I had this conversation with my production assistant a couple weeks ago. I was like, we kind of need to think about the branding that we do at repertoire is almost being like, Anti true cooks in a way where it's like it needs to speak to someone who is not all about that life.
I'm just laughing so hard at the True Cooks thing because I know exactly what you're talking about. That's like a pretty niche reference, but like that sort of brand image because I agree with you, and I think what it does is it's like there's so many people of the older generation who went into cooking professionally, not because they like loved food or thought it was a really interesting challenge, or thought there was a, you know, good way to make an impact or were like intellectually interested in it, whatever.
They went in because it was like they didn't fit in anywhere else in society. And it was like you said, this like pirate thing and like outcasts and rebels and all that. And like, not that that's bad, but I think that there's like I, I want more room for people to enter this industry because they love cooking and they love food.
Or like, like you almost were saying that, It should attract really, really smart people who see like really interesting challenges here. And there should be as much room for, you know, like some guy who graduated from Yale and is interested in like, the logistics of this business. And I do think that some of the like yeah, br branding around it turns it off.
What, what's kind of funny is like, like you can look through history and see like certain chefs who just didn't fit that mold and kind of like carved their own lane. Like some of these like quieter, nerdy, more like intellectual, you know, I even think of like someone like Wiley Dufrene who was just kind of like a weird cool, super creative dude.
And it's like I want more of those types of people to exist. Like I think that's a yeah, I think that's a good.
Yeah. And, and I, I, I hope it's not coming through like, I, I bash true cooks in any sort of way where it's like, I, I don't think that, because like if it speaks to you, if it, if it helps you be a better professional, that's great. I just find that if you just kind of like, if you crack open a floorboard just a little bit, there's like so many fucking problems underneath the stuff that gets talked about on pages like that, or like glamorizing that kind of lifestyle where it's like your relationships suck and you're in a bunch of dead and you're just like, like, there's so many issues that, that come with that.
And it's like to put that on the pedestal of like, this is what we're proud to be is just, it, it doesn't, it doesn't do what I want the, the industry to do. And, and ultimately it makes it harder for people. Like, it's like you guys know that, it's like a two steps backwards, one step forward kind of thing.
And, and that's why, that's why, that's why I go on these rants about,
Yeah. And I think it's kind of telling that the a lot of the sort of like people who, that brand. I don't wanna single them out specifically, but like that brand image, the type of people they idolize who are now in the later stages of their career are turning around and saying like, I have regrets.
I wish I had done things differently. Like, this isn't sustainable, this and that. So it's like, what are you idolizing? Because even the people who, who have, you know, gone through that I think are now realizing it's not the right way. I mean, you even look at someone like Sh Sean Brock Right, who's just like, kind of embodied that in a lot of ways.
And now it's like
Are the guys from Joe Beef? They did the same thing. They like
oh really?
Yeah, he made this huge declaration. He was like, I was in like a hell hole of health and I just like went completely sober because I was just like, I could not continue to do this anymore. I think he went on a Rogan and talked about it.
That's interesting. I gotta, I gotta check that out.
I took us on on that true cook tangent back to, to health principals. Can you talk a little bit about like what you would, you know, like if, if someone's just starting off, they're just like, you know, Hey, I'm 19, I am just thinking about going to culinary school. Or I just got my first, you know, dishwasher job.
I'm just kind of curious if there are any things that might stand out as like even low hanging fruit to, to people.
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll say like I am, I'm definitely not a, like
Yeah. Yeah. Disclaimer. Yeah. Health, medical disclaimer, doctor disclaimer inserted.
yeah. And even, I just think it's such a personalized thing that you kind of have to like find what works for you. But I, I, I honestly think the, the biggest thing that I can speak to that's like industry specific is that you don't have to fall into that trap of that like, hardcore lifestyle.
You know, like I just think, you know, when you are working on your feet and physically all day, every day, like you, you really need to like rest and recover well in order to, in order to do that job well. And you're just not gonna do that if you're drinking all the time and getting like, really poor sleep and all of that.
So I think. Prioritizing those things. It's like in some way, like high level athletes would never do that to their bodies. Right? But like, you're not an athlete, but you're someone who uses your physical body every day to do your job well. So I think if you think about it a little bit more like that, then you, you're going to take care of your body accordingly.
You, you have this funny thing that you talk about with, and it's not even funny. I, I completely agree with it. I, I just think it doesn't get talked about enough and, and to the home cook, it's like a complete mind blown moment.
But you had had this overrated, underrated list that you published and one of them was overrated as recipes and underrated as techniques. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah. I mean, I think the simplest way to put it is that when you when you learn an individual recipe, you learn how to make one dish. When you learn a technique, you learn how to make a thousand dishes. I think. If there's a lot of chefs listening to this, I'm sure they agree with me. I think this actually, I think about this more in the context of home cooks, which is that so many people that I know, they're very married to recipes.
And I think recipes are, are great. They're a good way to share knowledge and they're a good way to get inspiration. But like, you don't need to follow every recipe to a tea. If it says a half teas of salt, like that's not a real measurement. These people, you know, the person who developed the recipe is using different ingredients from a different part of the world, from a different time of year.
You know, from, from different farms like these, these are. Living things that, that vary a lot. And so I think when you stick too much to recipes, you put yourself in a box and you get away from what we talked about way earlier, which is like cooking with, with intuition. So what I like about techniques is that they're kind of these like high level frameworks that can guide you in your cooking that are gonna ultimately allow you to cook a bunch of different things.
And it's like if you want to cook one, you know, say that you want to like learn how to make you know, cochinita pibil or something, it's like, yeah, go find a recipe or find a couple recipes and compare them and, and you know, see what they have in common. So if you're look cooking a specific dish, great. But like, if your goal is to be able.
Cook a lot and take what's in your kitchen and make something really delicious and tasty out of it. Or go to the farmer's market and buy something and then cook it. Even though you haven't necessarily cooked that before. I think you'll get a lot more value out of learning techniques or focusing on learning techniques.
I'm, I, I know you gave a little bit of an industry call out there to, you know, like, oh, well chefs, chefs might know this, or working professionals might know this, but it's like, I, I, I want to spend a second on that because it's like, you might not, like, if you're working super early on in your career and you're just like getting delegated recipes, it's like you might not actually comprehend the fact that like you do have the technique available now in your toolkit of like how to make an em.
Or like how to roast or kind of like thinking about the mayard reaction or like all of these sorts of underlying principles that I think we're talking about here that, that, you know, if you just pay attention to kind of like, oh, well I have this recipe book and it just has a bunch of, like, notes in it and scaled out ingredients that I have, and it's just, it, it, it can often get lost on people that they do actually have a bunch of techniques that they can use.
It's just so siloed to like this recipe that I do every single week.
Yeah. And it's like, just, just take a step back and be like, okay, yeah, I'm following this recipe, but like, what is the technique that is a part of this recipe? And think about like, you know, what am I trying to accomplish with this recipe and how does that technique accomplish that? And then you'll immediately see how it's applicable to a bunch of other dishes.
You can also see this sometimes when people do a little bit too much recipe, I'll call it like hoarding, you know what I mean? Like they, I, I have, I have all these recipes documented or like, I, I've spent all this time like transcribing recipes from cookbooks into my notebooks, and it's like, okay, like does that information benefit you further than just like having this little thing that you can spout off?
If I were to ask you for like a terragon fluid gel or,
totally. Yeah.
[01:08:51] Myles Talks about his Repertoire
okay. I have this question in, in, in line with technique. I, you can frame it from like a, a skill that's been really hard fought to acquire for yourself. This can maybe be in relation to business or content or, or, or cooking. I, I always like to ask people, what's the most valuable part of your repertoire?
Ooh, that's a, that's a really good question. You know, I don't know if I can say one thing definitively, but something that comes to mind was that in college I learned to speak Spanish, and that opened up so many doors for me. I mean, the, the cooking school that I went to in Mexico was all in Spanish. That wouldn't have been possible without it. I don't think I would've moved to Mexico without it.
Like the, I wouldn't have been able to, I probably wouldn't have gotten the job at Heartwood. Maybe, but like I wouldn't have been able to do the staging that I did. And it's like that one skill opened up so much for me that I think like, you know, it also allowed me to get a set of experiences that a lot of people who were similar to me in terms of like background and, and other things wouldn't have been able to do.
Um, And so I don't think it, it has to be Spanish, but like if you're a young chef and you're really interested in learning a lot about another cuisine and you're thinking about going abroad, like we talked about earlier, like do whatever you can to learn the language, cuz it'll open up a ton of doors and you'll be able to integrate that much deeper into the culture and you'll learn a ton from that experience.
Well, pardon in the pun. But you see this with, this translates to other languages too, right? Like you see people who say they want to go to France, they want to cook in France. It's like, I would count that as a pretty valuable prerequisite. Or, or you hear about sometimes, oh well I tried to apply, apply to this place in Tokyo Toge, and it's like they were only taking people who spoke Japanese.
It's like, okay, well, you know, think about that a little bit.
100%.
You're probably the 10th guest that I think I've asked that. What's the most valuable part of your repertoire question to, and I think I want to start to rephrase it a little bit to saying you can pick up to three things because I think that it, you, you've have this funny thing where you just like get to this point and you're like, oh, I can't just pick one.
So I you're, you're gonna be the first person I ask. Do you have anything else that stands out or just kind of like skills that have helped you
along the way?
I, I think the, the intuitive cooking from spending so much time on open fire is another one. Like, I think that that just allowed me to feel comfortable in almost any kitchen situation. I think live fire is like the most unpredictable, kind of like chaotic, you know, type of, of heat that you can cook with.
And so once you feel comfortable without, you feel comfortable in basically any environment. So that I think would, would, would be the number two. And then
I think the third thing would be the the fact that I'm like very deep in the cooking world, but also pretty deep in the tech world. And this touches on some of the stuff that we talked about. You're very much the same way, but I think that you see a lot of people who are one or the other. And I think especially for people who are interested in cooking for chefs and all of that, there's so, so, so much value to be had.
Like there's, there's pitfalls to the digital age too. We, we touched on some of those, but it's also like, it's, there's so, so, so much opportunity that's enabled by the internet. It's crazy. It blows my mind every day. There's, I went to this lunch recently with a, a bunch of people who are doing kind of like digital stuff and someone said, there's two types of people in the world, people who don't understand the scale of the internet and people who know that they don't understand the scale of the internet.
And I think it's very true. Like, it, I, my mind is blown sometimes at like, just the, the reach that you can get through these things and the opportunities that become available to you when you're tapped in. So I think that, yeah, when, when you have that crossover, it, it, it becomes really powerful.
So, Back up really quickly to the, the intuitive cooking piece. I don't know if you talk about this one-on-one with, with coaching clients of yours, but is is if someone's listening to this and they're like, yeah, Myles got you. I I want to get better at that intuitive cooking thing. Is there some sort of exercise, just go work at a restaurant, might be the piece of advice?
Or, or you know, like any sort of, if I have just like a, you know, half domed Weber grill or Green Egg in the, in my backyard that like, I wanna, I want to improve on, are there sort of like exercises or cook this dish kind of, kind of thing that you, you might advise them to do, to improve that, that skill?
Yeah, I mean, I don't even, like, I don't think you have to go straight into charcoal. Like, I would almost say like cook eggs every day and try like 10 different ways of cooking eggs. Like try crispy fried egg, try a scr, soft scramble, soft boil, hard boiled, poached. Like th I love eggs cuz they provide like endless ways to learn about these different, like, cooking methods and techniques.
And like if you do that and you cook, you cook eggs 10 different ways and you do that a few times each, like you will learn so, so, so much about different cooking mediums and heat control and how the, like how protein and fat and heat all interact. Like there's so much that you could learn by just cooking eggs and so many people, myself included, eat eggs almost every day for breakfast.
So there's like a lot of opportunity to do that in a way that I think is very approachable for people.
And on the getting more familiar with the tech side of things, like if someone's listening, they're like, yeah, guys, you're right. Like I just, I, I, I'm in my chef's office and I have cookbooks and like I have, I don't follow anybody on social media. I don't follow any cks. I, I'm not, I'm not anywhere where, have there been any places that have been like, oh, well someone should start here to just potentially get a little bit more kind of like versed in, in the tech side of things.
this is my personal opinion, but I am impartial to Twitter for some of the reasons that I mentioned earlier. Like I said, I think there, I think it's an inherently social social network, so it's like, if you're one of those people, reach out to me, reach out to Justin on Twitter, look at who we follow, and you can, you know, kind of start to get a sense of like the, the community that's on there.
But it's like, I like Twitter cuz it's the type of place where it's very normal to just like DM someone. And you feel like you can get that like, you know, interaction and by Yeah, just popping in there. You know, checking out who we follow, you'll see that there's, you know, there's a, a small but growing community of like, food focused people on there.
And I think it's still early enough that you can kind of like pop into the conversation and, and get noticed and get on people's radar and participate in those conversations.
[01:15:07] Rapid Fire Questions
I mean, you talked, you talked about eggs. I have this question that I ask all my guests, which is, you know, it's a Saturday morning, you're just kind of coming into your kitchen after long work week and, and you're gonna make eggs for yourself.
How do you prepare those eggs?
I am obsessed with this technique that I learned from Frank Cenzano on his Instagram, which is this like crispy fried egg. So basically it's like hot pan. A lot more olive oil than you think you need. And it produces and then you fry the eggs in that and it's like you get this really crisp bottom.
The whites are cooked completely, the yolks are like just set. And it's like the perfect combination of textures that with like some shaved pino cheese and some either like chili flakes or hot sauce or something like that. Like one of my favorites,
I love it. What's one thing that you've changed your mind on in recent memory?
I gotta think about this one.
that's
good. It's fine.
This isn't super recent memory, but I definitely went through a period of time where I was much more heavily focused on like plant-based cooking. I kind of like, I ate a lot more like pescatarian leaning than I, than I do now. You know, since moving to Texas, becoming friends with a bunch of people who are involved in like regenerative farming, I've realized that there are ways to do animal agriculture that I think are like highly ethical, really good for the environment and are things that we like should support.
And I actually think that you can make a bigger impact by, like, economically supporting those farms and companies than avoiding it all together.
I love it. Us as content creators are often, pigeonholed is the wrong word, but I think we're incentivized to continue to share what people know us as. I'm curious if there's something that doesn't end up on your Twitter or your Instagram, as in you don't share it that widely, but you really get excited about it.
Oh yeah. I'm very, very interested in mind body medicine. So I went through a period of time where I struggled with really bad, like gastrointestinal issues. And then later on I had like a period of really bad chronic pain. Like mine was mostly like neck pain, but there's people, you know, back shoulder, whatever.
I think it's also pretty common for cooks. And I discovered the work of this guy named Dr. John Sarno, who is a really, really, really interesting guy. You know, Western medical doctor worked at nyu, but he was a he was working with a lot of people with, with chronic back pain who were being treated in the sort of like traditional ways and weren't getting better.
And he developed a theory that started with him kind of diagnosing back pain. He later expanded it to include not just all forms of chronic pain, but a lot of like. Just everything from like IBS to even certain like anxiety disorders. And it really, it's what he calls like a mind body type of thing.
So it's not saying that it's all in your head, but it's saying that the, the mind and the body are one and that you can't disconnect them and that the approaches that view it too much as just this like physical object that needs to be manipulated are missing a lot of things. And I received like tremendous benefit from learning about his work and some of the peop the other people in that field.
And I'm just like so grateful for discovering that knowledge. It absolutely changed my life and I think anybody who's struggling with those kinds of things should check out his work first and foremost, and then kind of see where the rabbit hole leads them from there. But I think that, yeah, if I like, it's, it's definitely something I'm.
Passionate about, I've gotten a ton of benefit from, and, you know, I think that, like, it doesn't have, you know, I'm, I'm, I have certain elements of my personality that are kinda like woowoo, but it doesn't have to be woow at all. Like, there's a very kind of like rigorous methodology here that applies
No, you're, my mom was like, when I was growing up, my mom was like, my mom was a pediatrician, so she was in Western medicine, and then she like became a reiki healer when I was a teenager.
no way.
yeah. So it's totally like you're, I get it. Like I totally get it. I mean, I guess how does that take, take place in, in your life?
Like, how does that is that a practice through how, like, how, how do you, how do you continue to live those principles throughout your
Yeah. I mean, luckily it's not as big of a part of my life anymore because it's, I managed to like, heal a lot of my issues. But I think when things come up, I'm very, like, I, I have that tool in my toolkit and those things don't turn into like chronic problems.
Sure. Yeah. That's great. We'll link that in the show notes for anybody who wants to do a deep dive there.
Yeah. I even have this thing where I tell people, like, if you, if you promise me you'll read the book, I'll buy the book for you. Like, I don't have to know. You just DM me. I, I like, I literally will. I've done that for a bunch of people. Cause I think it's that powerful. I wanna share it.
that's great. I mean that kind of leads us into our next question. I'll, I'll make the rule that you can't name this book, but the, the question is, what book has been particularly impactful for you in your career?
Okay. Yeah, I guess on this end I'll focus on the cooking side of things. But when I, so one of the first restaurants that I went to that like really made me want to be a chef was the original mission Chinese food in San Francisco. And then when I started at Heartwood, I got a copy of the Mission Chinese Food Cookbook that had just come out.
I think Danny Bowen is just awesome. I think he is like a flavor wizard. His approach to cooking is like, I'd say the two chefs that have been most influential to me are like Travis Let from Jalina and JuiceTA in LA because of this like maniacal focus on food quality and sourcing and respecting the primary ingredient.
And then Danny Bowen and like from from Danny, I've gotten so much of this, like not being afraid to get super creative with it. You don't have to follow the existing rules and like big loud flavors. Like I've always been really into like a lot of use of like chilies and acidity and umami and all that.
And like he had this almost like psychedelic approach to Chinese food that I thought was super cool. And the first time I ate there I was like blown away. And so when I got that book, I think not only is it like a great cookbook that has a ton of fun recipes in it, but it's really well written and tells his story in a way that I really connected with.
Cuz he talks about like his early cooking jobs and getting hazed and just like how it sucked. And at that time, My job kind of sucked and I just like it. It got me through that. So I, I love that book. I think it's a great cookbook.
You somehow get a call right after this interview that you just want an all expenses paid trip to eat at your dream restaurant, and when you get there, there's so many you've always wanted to talk to, waiting to have dinner with you. What is that restaurant and who is that?
Okay. Person can be living more.
Living or dead. I say
here dead. Okay. Wow. These, these are like really good, deep, impactful questions, so I gotta think about it. All right. I'm just not gonna overthink it, but I would say I'm going to Sari because I have yet to, to be there. I went to San Sebastian a few years ago and it was like one of my favorite places to eat in the entire world. I love the culture around food in the bass country. I love the pride that they take in their food and, you know, to have a legendary place like that, that's, that's open fire and kind of, I just think it, it sounds amazing.
I, I definitely want eat there before I die. And then the person, I'd probably have Michael Poll. I think that he's just like such an interesting guy. He's such an intellectual. I think the conversation would be fascinating.
he knows food.
he knows food very deeply. And like his philosophy I think really aligns with mine.
And what I admire about him is how he's managed to kind of like, take a philosophy around food that I think is really impactful and like achieve that at a very broad scale without being a restaurant chef. And this is it, you know, it's kind of fits in line with some of the stuff that I'm trying to do.
So I think he'd be, he'd be really cool. He also just seems like a cool guy.
Last question for you, Myles. I I, I, we, we talked about this briefly, I think in, in some of our other, you know, topical discussions here. But I always ask my guests, what do you think chefs gonna be doing better to help the next generation? And I just think it's an important like, drum to keep beating. But I guess if there's something, is there, if there's something that you haven't brought up yet that I think that you would either like to see playing out a little bit more in the industry or, or would've helped you when you were early I, I'd love to hear what you think on that topic.
Yeah, I mean, I think that there are a lot of chefs. Came up in restaurants that were like kitchen confidential style, and they just repeated that cycle. And I think having the you know, it takes like strength of character and bravery to like break that cycle. But I think that's a really, really, really impactful thing that you can do because then you're gonna have a bunch of chefs that come up under you that know a different system and can take that forward.
Yeah. So it's almost like it's not just helping you, but it's like it will help, it will help numerous more than, than, than just yourself. That's an interesting way to frame it.
Yeah.
Anything else? Myles? I, I guess tell people where, where you want them to, to go get in touch with you or to follow along or sign up for stuff a after
It just, if you go on Twitter Myles underscore Cooks that's probably the best place. If you wanna get in touch with me or just Myles snider.com is my website. It has all the other socials and email and everything else. So yeah, that's,
This has been a blast, man. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
Well, well here we are together again at the end of another episode of the Repertoire podcast. If this is your first time listening, this is a show for hospitality creators who want to think better, increase their performance, and believe that it's possible to take lessons from what others have already learned.
I am your host Justin Kana, and if you're new here, I'd like to personally welcome you to the show. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Friendly heads up to check out the show notes inside of the description of this podcast. If you want to check out previous guests. Links to specifics that got brought up in this episode, as well as other helpful content that we create and share here online because everything we do is focused on helping you along your journey.
If you don't have a ton of time, the best place to start is with some value sent straight to your inbox every single week. It's called the Repertoire Newsletter, where we share knowledge on sharpening your skills, asymmetric upside, and exploring the industry beyond the status quo. If you subscribe, we'll keep you up to date on trends that are shaping the hospitality creator ecosystem.
We'll share discounts on gear that we find as well as content that we've been producing ourselves and helpful articles that we've already read and decided are worth your time. Last up, if you want to connect with other industry professionals in the Repertoire Pro community, you want to check out courses like Total Station Domination or download free tools that we've created.
You can learn more@joinrepertoire.com. That's J O I N R e P E R T O I R E. Dot com. The only ask for me is that if you enjoyed this episode, I'd really appreciate a review of this show on Apple Podcasts as well as Spotify to help the podcast universe know that people like us, like shows like this.
Regardless, I'll see you in the next episode. My name is Justin Kana and I hope you have a good one.